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IpsoFacto
Seaman
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 163
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 Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject: Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief |
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Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief
August 28, 2004
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Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.
"It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me," he said.
The additional language varied from the two previous citations, signed first by Adm. Elmo Zumwalt and then Adm. John Hyland, which themselves differ. The new material added in the Lehman citation reads in part: "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself...."
Asked how the citation could have been executed over his signature without his knowledge, Lehman said: "I have no idea. I can only imagine they were signed by an autopen." The autopen is a device often used in the routine execution of executive documents in government.
Kerry senior adviser Michael Meehan could not be reached for comment on Kerry's records.
Thomas Lipscomb is chairman of the Center for the Digital Future in New York. |
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips28.html
Is this getting uglier or the Media already got past this?
Are the Swift Vets going to continue with something more media worthy than this third commercial? |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject: Lehman Autopen |
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Does anyone know if Silver Star citations routinely are approved through use of the autopen? Even if they are, it would seem that a clerk might have flagged this one, given that he is a Senator. Call me a skeptic but I smell a rat.
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BrianC
PO2
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Allow me to play devil's advocate here...
a) I can't imagine that any SecNav personally signs those things, especially when it's a replacement certificate.
b) Otherwise, the SecNav would do nothing but sit in his office all day signing various forms.
That said, I was under the distinct impression that Silver Stars - replacement certs or not- aren't handed out like candy, and those that are preparing them certainly should know the regs regarding the "V" symbol on them. (Let's just say that Silver Stars aren't exactly "gedunk medals").
The whole thing seems as phoney as Kerry himself.
There's my $0.02. |
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7rrfs
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips27.html
| Quote: | The Kerry campaign has repeatedly stated that the official naval records prove the truth of Kerry's assertions about his service.
But the official records on Kerry's Web site only add to the confusion. The DD214 form, an official Defense Department document summarizing Kerry's military career posted on johnkerry.com, includes a "Silver Star with combat V."
But according to a U.S. Navy spokesman, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star."
Naval regulations do not allow for the use of a "combat V" for the Silver Star, the third-highest decoration the Navy awards. None of the other services has ever granted a Silver Star "combat V," either.
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Also:
| Quote: | Kerry's Web site also lists two different citations for the Silver Star. One was issued by the commander in chief of the Pacific Command (CINCPAC), Adm. John Hyland. The other, issued by Secretary of the Navy John Lehman during the Reagan administration, contained some revisions and additional language. "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself... ."
But a third citation exists that appears to be the earliest. And it is not on the Kerry campaign Web site. It was issued by Vice Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, commander of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam. This citation lacks the language in the Hyland citation or that added by the Lehman version, but includes another 170 words in a detailed description of Kerry's attack on a Viet Cong ambush, his killing of an enemy soldier carrying a loaded rocket launcher, as well as military equipment captured and a body count of dead enemy.
Maj. Anthony Milavic, a retired Marine Vietnam veteran, calls the issuance of three citations for the same medal "bizarre." Milavic hosts Milinet, an Internet forum popular with the military community that is intended "to provide a forum in military/political affairs."
Normally in the case of a lost citation, Milavec points out, the awardee simply asked for a copy to be sent to him from his service personnel records office where it remains on file. "I have never heard of multi-citations from three different people for the same medal award," he said. Nor has Burkett: "It is even stranger to have three different descriptions of the awardee's conduct in the citations for the same award."
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Now why isnt the media all over this?
Isnt a DD214 an OFFICIAL document like they are yapping about?
Isnt a citation AN OFFICAL document any more?
You dont need to be a rocket surgeon (!) to be able to piece this together. Kerry is a fraud.
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"I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry |
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rparrott21
Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 760
Location: Mckinney, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| This guy is unreal.... |
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RocketFett
PO3
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Does this not now indicate, PROVE, that kerry received two Purple Hearts, and NOW a Silver Star which were received under patently FALSE circumstances? The Silver Star was already dubious at best with that "V" for Valor debockle, which NO Silver Star in any branch of service in the history of the Silver Star has ever received. So now he's down to one Purple Heart, and one Bronze Star, and the fact that he left Vietnam early under totally false pretences, and abandonded his fellow officers and men in the field, and then never served the remaining three years on his Navy committment when he got back to the states. So he was AWOL, while President Bush was actually flying planes, and the F-102 to boot, a hard plane to fly. What has to be done to officially strip him of the two Purple Hearts and the Silver Star? I know the Navy likely won't do it, but is there any way to get someone to officially do that? He doesn't deserve them and his campaign has used those medals as a reason that he's qualified to be President! Strip those medals, and you simply have a deserter to got himself some undeserved citations and three bogus Purple Hearts so he could skip out on his service. He might as well of burned his draft card and ran to England and Russia like clinton did for all the difference it makes!  |
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7rrfs
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Does this not now indicate, PROVE, that kerry received two Purple Hearts, and NOW a Silver Star which were received under patently FALSE circumstances? The Silver Star was already dubious at best with that "V" for Valor debockle, which NO Silver Star in any branch of service in the history of the Silver Star has ever received. |
Problem - These are replacement documents. Kerry can just call it a clerical error. "oopsie! A boo boo and I didnt do it. neener neener"
I aint buying, but the media can just ignore it then.
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"I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry |
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beansoup
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject: Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief |
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I think Judical Watch has started an investigation, with the Navy..I can't get into their site...Anyone having a the same problem?? I'm entering,
http://www.judicalWatch.com
Appreciate it
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"John (F) Kerry = "Talk the Talk"
"George W.Bush = "Walk the Talk"
"Swiftvet Donation site"
http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php |
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ord33
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Problem - These are replacement documents. Kerry can just call it a clerical error. "oopsie! A boo boo and I didnt do it. neener neener"
Kerry without a doubt was aware of it. When he sent in the DD215 to get the additional medals for service under the Gridley, he had to have noticed what other medals he received, because that was the EXACT conflict/reason he was doing the DD215, to dispute his medals and request more from his service on USS Gridley. At this point he should have corrected the Silver Star with V. However, it appears Sen. Kerry just wants to add things to his record, rather than make it an accurate depiction of what he really received. |
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azpatriot
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 593
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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beansoup it's www.judicialwatch.org
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FedEx Kinko's: When it absolutely, positively has to be forged overnight  |
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beansoup
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:41 pm Post subject: Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief |
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azpatriot, Really appreciate, your help..
Thanks...I'll hop over there now....
_________________
"John (F) Kerry = "Talk the Talk"
"George W.Bush = "Walk the Talk"
"Swiftvet Donation site"
http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php |
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beansoup
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Texas
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beansoup
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief |
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I copied the pfd file of the Judicial watch investigation document, in case anyone needs info..Tell you, judicial doc, covered the whole story...It also went to the Defense dept...
Things are moving...Go people! Keep the pressure on.... 
_________________
"John (F) Kerry = "Talk the Talk"
"George W.Bush = "Walk the Talk"
"Swiftvet Donation site"
http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php |
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beansoup
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Texas
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Robert Cooper
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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This is indeed a mysterious item to consider. There are a lot of mystery surrounding Kerry no matter what Kerry is involved with - and I think a careful investigation of his military records will reveal some things that I don't think Kerry and other people wants to be discovered by the public.
I think, when all the smoke clears, that it will discovered that there are some U.S. Senators involved in where he was strategically placed in Vietnam, what citations he received, and how he got out.
I think that it will be discovered that a Senator or Senators were also involved in introducing Kerry to the VAVW in which he served to represent
at the 1971 Congressional Hearing to serve their Agenda.
Read: http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6129
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