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What Whittaker Chambers has in common with the SwiftVets

 
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rlmorel
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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Location: The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:39 am    Post subject: What Whittaker Chambers has in common with the SwiftVets Reply with quote

"Experience had taught me that innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does. Innocence is a mighty shield, and the man or woman covered by it, is much more likely to answer calmly: “My life is blameless. Look into it, if you like, for you will find nothing.” That is the tone of innocence."
Whittaker Chambers, "Witness"

Whittaker Chambers was a man who took a stand against all odds, was villified by the press who sided overwhelmingly with his antagonist, Alger Hiss, the same press who set the tone for the trial. Whittaker Chambers was ridiculed and laughed at, they dug up dirt on him, even to the point of implying (and isn't that how the main stream media does most of it's dirty work...by implying indirectly?) that he had a homosexual affair with his brother who had committed suicide. They made fun of his appearance, branded him a perjurer and dug up as much dirt as they could on him. They tried to break him.

In the end, it was his antagonist Alger Hiss who was broken.

The truth was evident for all to see (who did not belong to the press) and history has proven Whittaker Chambers was truthful in every single way.

The man had integrity.

Now, here we are, nearly 60 years later, and it seems things have not changed. Men are standing up for what is right, because it is our country at stake, as it was with Communism in the late 40's.

The press is siding with the antagonists, in exactly the same way.

I think we will get the same result, too. The truth, when evident, is a powerful force for change.
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markasass
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post. Terrific analogy. Hopefully, well before the election, Kerry will sign SF 180 and the SBVTs will have their own "Venona Cables/Transcripts/Papers". Johnny Boy, the truth will set you free.
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Chuck54
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good analogy. Fortunately today, its 250 plus men of integrity going against the media mobsters. And now we have the internet and cable TV, two powerful weapons against the mob.
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Me#1You#10
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rlmorel...

Another bookmark for you sir. BZ!
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rlmorel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me#1You#10 wrote:
rlmorel...

Another bookmark for you sir. BZ!


I hope that is a good thing!!!?? If so, thanks...!
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

markasass wrote:
Excellent post. Terrific analogy. Hopefully, well before the election, Kerry will sign SF 180 and the SBVTs will have their own "Venona Cables/Transcripts/Papers". Johnny Boy, the truth will set you free.


This is an analogy that has been much on my mind as well, but there are as many crucial distinctions as their are similarities. First, Chambers did have a history of homosexual activity (but not with his brother), and there was, in fact, some dirt to be found on him. Second, he was an admitted liar and he did commit perjury. After all, he had spent years as a Communist espionage agent lying to people and assuming false identities, and he did lie under oath when initially asked whether his cell had also been involved in spying.

It was difficult for Chambers to overcome these liabilities after he finally chose to come fully clean. By contrast, the SBVTs are all honorable men who have not told any lies that they need to overcome, as far as I know.

The similarity, of course, is in the reaction of the MSM, when an Ivy League icon adored by all the "best people" is exposed. I hope the similarities end there, because it took until recently to fully vindicate Chambers.
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rlmorel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true, Mona. However, I have always felt that, while I am not a practicing Christian, I do believe in the concept of forgiveness. If someone is truly repentant, I can forgive them their actions. It doesn't mean they don't have to pay for them, but I think I can try to find it in my heart to forgive them. That said, if you read "Witness", you can see how he changed. He saw what an awful, horrible thing Communism was, and how it replaced God with Man, and what that really meant when that happened. He got older and wiser, and changed. We should all be so lucky. And I am sure he had dirt to be dug. We all, as humans, have that same dirt to be dug, some more than others.

I see your point. But I belive that the similarities come from the same place, a love of our country. In the end, Whittaker Chambers was an honorable man, and a patriot, same as SBVT's. He stood up when it counted, and took the punishment for what it was.
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rlmorel wrote:
Very true, Mona. However, I have always felt that, while I am not a practicing Christian, I do believe in the concept of forgiveness. If someone is truly repentant, I can forgive them their actions. It doesn't mean they don't have to pay for them, but I think I can try to find it in my heart to forgive them. That said, if you read "Witness", you can see how he changed. He saw what an awful, horrible thing Communism was, and how it replaced God with Man, and what that really meant when that happened. He got older and wiser, and changed. We should all be so lucky. And I am sure he had dirt to be dug. We all, as humans, have that same dirt to be dug, some more than others.

I see your point. But I belive that the similarities come from the same place, a love of our country. In the end, Whittaker Chambers was an honorable man, and a patriot, same as SBVT's. He stood up when it counted, and took the punishment for what it was.


I agree with much that you write, and have read Witness some half dozen times. And also greatly enjoyed Sam Tanenhaus' bio of Chambers.

Witness stands as one of the most significant and lyrically written books of the 20th century. I fully agree that he demonstrated extraordinary courage and paid a terrible price for a job that had to be done. (Tho I'm not a believer, and found his gloomy predictions that the West would lose quite oppressive.)

Anyway, I agree with the concept of forgiveness, and my point was just that I myself have resisted comparing the Chambers/Hiss controversy to the SBVT/Kerry one on other boards because I have worried what Kerry defenders knowledgable about the former could do with it. Chambers had credibility issues the Swiftees just do not have.

Now that I think about it, tho, many have tried to demonize O'Neill for his Nixon connection. Obviously Chambers turned out to be telling the truth about Hiss, notwithstanding that it was a young Richard Nixon driving the bus there. Hmmm.
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markasass
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Mona, for pointing out the differences, as well as the similarities, between Chambers/Hiss and SBVT/Kerry, especially to those who have not read Witness by Chambers or Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America by Haynes & Klehr. I agree it's important to NOT give the Kerry Kool-Aid Kamp (KKK) any ammunition by mistake.
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DenisC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys/gals would love TREASON by Ann Coulter. I learned a lot from that book.
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