SwiftVets.com

[PierreLegrand]

Was Operation Tran Hung Dao XI the only operation that the Swift Boats conducted into Cambodia? I realize that Ha Tien was along Cambodia but it appears that the only operation into Cambodia was a run up the Mekong river.

Did Mr. O'Neil participate in Operation Tran Hung Dao XI? I am pretty sure not since he has already stated he did not go into Cambodia.


Any help appreciated.


Pierre
_________________
Pierre Legrand
Owner Bouncer Pink Flamingo Bar Grill
www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html

[PierreLegrand]

Does anyone have any ideas on this question?
_________________
Pierre Legrand
Owner Bouncer Pink Flamingo Bar Grill
www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html

[Abbey November]

To my recollection Tran Hung Dao XI was the only large, organized operation where swiftboats crossed the Cambodian border. The operation occured on the upper Mekong River and included a large number of boats. The swiftboat division involved was Cos Div 13 (Cat Lo/Vung Tau).

The organized incursion into Cambodia in May (?) 1970 is in sharp contrast to the patrols out of Ha Tien on "Bernique's Creek", which is on the Gulf of Thailand on the west coast of Vietnam. These patrols were made by boats from Cos Div 11. Patrols inland from Ha Tien did follow the Cambodia border. The analogy is to think about driving a boat down the center of a four lane highway that has a solid stripe down the middle. One side is Vietnam and one side is Cambodia...for miles. I am not absolutely sure that the border did run down the middle of that canal. However, one could have thrown rocks from Cambodia and hit a swiftboat patroling the canal.

So to compare the two is to compare an organized incrusion by a lot of boats to daily patrols by groups of two or three boats. It's also a comparison of boats from Cos Div 13 and boats from Cos Div 11. The Cambodia incursion was in May 1970. Patrols from Ha Tien started in 1969.

I believe that Mr. O'Neill did patrol the Cambodia border out of Ha Tien and did not participate in the Cambodian incusion.

[PierreLegrand]

I have been having a discussion of sorts with Spoons from Spoonsexperience who called Mr. O'Neil a liar. I believe that what is actually happening is this person is a conservative who hates Bush and has vowed to defeat him. Mr. O'Neil is doing the most damage to Kerry's chances so Spoons is attacking Mr. O'Neil. It may seem odd but I believe that a sizable proportion of some conservatives want President Bush to lose as some sort of lesson to the Republicans.

Pierre

http://www.papadoc.net/2004/08/lying-sack-of-shitstrong-words-for.html
_________________
Pierre Legrand
Owner Bouncer Pink Flamingo Bar Grill
www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html

[rb325th]

Any good debators want to give Pierre a hand with a poster on his Blog? Link is in his post above. I am not much of a debator, I'd just end up telling him to go pound sand.
_________________
U.S. Army 1983-1995, 11C1P/11H2P NBTDT

[Abbey November]

Pierre...it seems that your foe got under your skin and he might know it. You can't win the arguement with him.

For your own satisfaction, go to the map of Vietnam.

http://www.nexus.net/~911gfx/SVNmap.html

Click on the square third up from the bottom to get to

http://www.nexus.net/~911gfx/nc4806.html

Then click on the sector of the map that shows the black line signifying the Vietnam Cambodian border beginning in the Gulf of Thailand, ie. from the lower left corner, go up two squares and in two squares to get to

http://www.nexus.net/~911gfx/mapnc4806.html

Again, from the lower left corner, go up two squares and go in two squares to get to

http://www.nexus.net/~911gfx/vietnam/maps/nc48-06/nc48_06b.html

The bay in the lower left is by the village of Ha Tien. Moving northeasterly you enter the Rach Giang Than which becomes Kinh Vinh Te canal. The Vinh Te canal runs all the way to the Mekong River.

O'Neill patrolled on the Rach Giang and also the Vinh Te canal. If you look at the map you can see how close the border comes to the Rach Giang. The border touches the water in several places. However, THERE IS NO WAY TO CROSS THE BORDER. O'Neill was always assigned to Cos Div 11. He was never assigned to Cos Div 13. The boats in Cos Div 13 could go up the Mekong River to where the border crosses the river (but they didn't). So if O'Neill was always in Cos Div 11, then the only way for him to get into Cambodia would be to put wheels on his boat and drive across. LOL

Hope this helps you with your Carvell critter.

[BuffaloJack]

Tran Hung Dao XI was definitely May 1970. I just missed it. I was assigned to CosDiv 13 in Cat Lo in early April '70, was there about 3 or 4 weeks, and, because they were overstaffed, was shifted to the CSC at Vung Tau about two or three days before the boats got underway for Cambodia. Kerry departed Vietnam quite a while before this. He was never there.

[baldeagl]

Everyone seems to be missing the point of the "Christmas in Cambodia" story. No one is arguing that Swifts weren't close to Cambodia or even that they may have strayed into Cambodia from time to time (although I think that's unlikely during the timeframe under discussion). What Kerry claimed is that he was ordered into Cambodia. That's a few light years away from "i was near the murky waters" or "I may have crossed over a time or two."

Kerry claimed it was US policy to cross into Cambodia on covert missions while he was there. Never mind the fact that his own witnesses say that Swift boats could be "heard for miles away", "sounded like a damn Greyhound bus" and "couldn't sneak up on anybody". The Kerry campaign has managed to shift the story from ordered into Cambodia to wandered into Cambodia and no one is calling them on it.

O'Neill claimed he was "in Cambodia, on the border", without any reference to time, and O'Neill was there in 70. Kerry claimed he was ordered into Cambodia. In fact, the idea that he was ordered there was central to his claim that the government could not be trusted.

Don't take your eye off the ball, and you'll do much better in debates.
_________________
antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/

[HardCorps]

Operation Tran Hung Dao XI where swift boats actually did operate in Cambodia commenced May 9, 1970 (very successfully might I add). kerry was a reservists stateside planning flag burnings by then.

Pierre I read your Article on Pink Flamingo, you beat them with common sense, reason and the facts. They are now practicing willful ignorance and are mere software viruses for the brain.

baldegle has it dead on, kerry used his seared lie as an elected official for the historical record on the floor of the Senate. All to attack a respected President because kerry's brain is too weak to deal in reality. Period. kerry is ill, and willfully practices "projection". It is a pattern with winter soldier, his medals, his life.

John O'Neill has more integrity, honor, and courage in his little finger than Kerry has in his whole made up life.
_________________
__________________________
-USMC - Always Faithful
-Platoon Cmdr - Somalia
-ANGLICO FAC - Iraqi Freedom

[Bob_P]

Here is a pic of a Swift I took from the Benewah during THD XI. We only went as far as the Nek Long Ferry Landing and there was little action during the operation.
http://pahlow.net/albums/viet_nam/pages/swift%20boat%20-%20cambodia_jpg.htm
_________________
RivPatFlotV, Binh Thuy, RVN, '69 - '70

[sevry]

[sevry]

[rbshirley]