SwiftVets.com

[Debs]

It seems to me the best way to understand this controversy and the best way to present it to people who do not closely follow the Swift Vets' story is by using the KISS principle - keep it simple stupid - at least it works for me in focusing on the essence of this story. Zaladonis' account is hardly a ringing endorsement for Kerry, as he is not sure if they were under fire and doesn't know if or how Kerry got hurt. Schachte appears very believable and credible about his account and I tend to believe him, as there is nothing in it for him by coming out at this time other than to set the record straight. But I think a lot can get lost in the he said/he said discussions as people get confused, tune out and don't know what or who to believe. But by presenting the fact that "THERE IS NO 'AFTER ACTION' HOSTILE FIRE OR CASUALTY REPORT" of this incident, and "ONLY A TREATMENT RECORD REFLECTING A SCRATCH AND A CERTIFICATE SIGNED THREE MONTHS LATER" has been produced, O'Neill focuses on the pertinent question - what is the documentation that supports Kerry's first purple heart? Apparently, there is none. This appears to support Schachte's claim of having not filed an after action report since there was no hostile fire - so there should have been no purple heart awarded to Kerry. By focusing and narrowing the question to the DOCUMENTATION, it makes it easier for me to understand the controversy, and I don't miss the forest for the trees. Apparently, there is no documentation of the initial incident to support the Purple Heart that was given to Kerry, and that is where the discussion can narrow and focus so that everyone can easily understand the controversy.

Debbie
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"No greater love..."

[Beldar]

I suspect the first reference in the transcript to Zaladonis firing an M-16 was a typo or a misunderstanding by the transcriber, and that he actually said "M-60." That's what he's consistently said, elsewhere in that interview and in the Kranish book (p. 72), as referenced in Unfit for Command (p. 35).

[95.143]

He is listed on PCF31 along with Joe Ponder (Swifboats.net). Was Zaldonis/Zaladonis in the "Song Bo De Ambush" (not massacre as described by Kerry) Nov'1968?

Ps.
May he, Zaldonis/Zaladonis, would have been the one that gave Kerry the info on this ambush as related on Unfit for Command, pg. 42. "The Dinner that never Happened"? But then, Kerry may have also received the ambush info from Stars & Stripes"

Runyon or "Z" , which ever volunteered would have been "seasoned" Maybe someone on the supporting PCF can shed the info that would help in dis-crediting Kerry.

[BenJaxBchFL]

Is it possible that these are seperate events? The admiral describes these missions as drifting close to the bank looking and listening for movement while the swiftboat remained at a distance or somewhat out of sight. Zaladonis describes that the skimmer was being towed and then they came upon fisherman in a free fire zone. I get the impression that the skimmer was being towed and then when they saw the fisherman they got in the skimmer where they could manuvuer amongst the fisherman for questioning.

So here is a key difference. The Admiral remembers that Kerry got hit with a small piece of shrapnel in the hand from the M-79. Zaladonis doesn't know if they were being fired on and it does not descibe Kerry's injury. If he and Runyan had discussed it so many times over the years since they were good friends then why would he not 1)descibe Kerry's injury 2) between them not know wether or not they were being fired at?

I think Zaladonis is describing an incident that has nothing to do with what the Admiral is talking about. I also think that this other incident is not one of the missions that the Admiral described.
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The war against terrorism is not that Americans might die rather that we would alter our way of living. If we get to a point where we choose not to go out because of fear, our economy will sink and in the end so will our nation. Vote Bush.

[integritycounts]

I agree with all the others....how could anyone not recall the injuries but recall the individuals on the boat.

It sounds like early on he was brought in to say "I was on the boat" he probably thought it was not going to be a big deal. Heck the documents show he got the bronze star why should he care.

But that is his only lie....He is not going farther than that, except to say the other guy was on the boat too. The other guy probably was. This guy likely not.

He is not increasing his lie about the weapons and the other events.

But come on, how could he not remember the enemy firing upon him and the injuries on this Super duper scary night. Those are the events that are never forgotten......IF THEY WERE TRUE

[johngalt1234]

[Beldar]

Having bitched and moaned about how lousy a job the press has done in asking questions of eyewitnesses like Mr. Zaladonis, I've posted a list of the questions I wish Lisa Myers had asked him:

http://www.beldar.org/beldarblog/2004/08/questions_i_wis.html

There are probably some folks reading this forum who have the military background I lack and could suggest some other, or better questions.

As always, I'd be grateful for your feedback, either via comments on my blog or by email to beldar*at*beldar.com.

[ASPB]

Additional questions for EN3 Zaldonis:



0n 2 Dec 69 to which boat were you assigned and for how long?

How long had you been in COSDIV 14?

Do you know to which boat EN3 Runyon was assigned when he accompanied you on the mission?

Was Lt. Schachte the boat and mission commander on 02 Dec 69?

How long had you known and served with him?

Did you meet with Lt. Schachte or Lt (jg) Kerry on 03 Dec 69 to discuss the previous night’s mission?

Did EN3 Runyon to the best of your knowledge meet with them?

When was the first time you discussed the mission with EN3 Runyon?

When was the next time? When was the last time?

When did you first discuss this action with LT(jg) Kerry? When was the last time you discussed it with him?

Probably a little circular logic here but I leave that clarification to an old wardog whose name is not “VC”.

Best Always,

Tom the RiverRat (aka ASPB)
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[rmeals]

To help clarify the context around the "Boston Whaler" missions:

1. When did these missions start and end?
2. How many were there and how often? Why were they stopped?
3. Did Mr. Schachte absolutely go on every one of them or did he not go on them past a point?
4. Do we know who other officers are that went on these missions? They could verify the always two officers part of the story.
5. Are there available spot reports, action reports, etc. for any of these missions? If there are, is Mr. Schachte the author of them or mentioned in them?
6. Are the names of other enlisted men known who went on these missions?

I am sure I will think of other questions. I am hoping there are members of this forum who can help fill in the blanks and start making what happened crystal clear.
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fighting steel

[drjohn]

Mr. Zaladonis

What "proof" do you have that YOU were on that boat that night?

[BL]

My questions are:

Was there any boat damage from this "enemy engagement" Kerry recalls?

Did anyone else on the skimmer get a purple heart?

Where is the casualty report for the injuries?

[larrygj]

When you get conflicting stories from witnesses, you need to look at: 1. Other circumstances surrounding the event that work for or against you; and 2. their credibility in general.

On point #1: Kerry was an officer in training in his first time out. It is my understanding that his superior -- Schachte, then a lieutenant -- would therefore not leave Kerry on his own in the skimmer with enlisted men. SOP would be for Schachte to accompany them. Is there a Swiftie who can verify that from his experience?

On point #2: does the fact Schachte made it to Admiral and has not put himself to the fore on this until recently (or been paraded by any candidate) count for something? Though I am also willing to believe this was so long ago and uneventful that Zaldonis is entitled to have forgotten the whole thing. I mean...nothing happened!

By the way, there have been posts around here where those supporting the SBVT are being too hard on themselves, worrying about media response, muddying the waters, etc. There are those who will support Kerry even if you produced pictures of him torturing POWs while naked in bed with Hanoi Jane and Giap. I believe there are enough fair-minded people who will read UFC, see the ads, listen to the Kerry spins and decide on the basis of the evidence that Kerry has not been playing with a full deck. He's already got two flat tires: the Cambodia fairy tale and the first PH that his campaign has had to back away from. The Silver Star "V" is still a story in the making, along with the Lehman forgery. And there can be no controversy on the facts whatsoever about what that traitor said in 1971 to the Senate, and days before that on Meet the Press, where at least he did provide proof as to one war criminal: himself.

Larry

[Jim T.]

I don't see you you reconcile these two statements:


Myers: Do you recall was there enemy fire that night?

Zaladonis: I'm not sure. I don't really remember. But it was so hard for me to tell. I can't say there was or there wasn't. I believe Mr. Kerry thought that there was, but I was busy with that M-60 and I was trying to empty all my ammo out as quick as possible, and get the heck out of there. It was a pretty scary situation…

I can't say we weren't fired on, but I can't really tell if we were. I didn't see any tracers, but that doesn't mean anything ‘cause if they were using small arms there wouldn't have been any tracers.


Myers: Do you think John Kerry deserved a Purple Heart for that work?

Zaladonis: Well, I’ll tell you, if I'd have been hurt that night, I’d have probably thought I'd deserved one too. I'm sure he deserved it. I'm sure he deserved it…

If you are not sure if there was enemy fire how can you be sure that Kerry deserved a Purple Heart. He says he didn's see any "tracers" yet if he was being shot at he most likely would have seen the AK's muzzle flashes. His story seems to be weak, yet Ms. Myers did not pounce with the zeal she exhibited with Adm. Schachte. Notice that she did not ask any questions regarding Kerry's lack of experience and whether he would be the only officer on the boat on his first misson, something Adm. Schachte emphasized (which makes sense to me).

Again, a weak witness who almost raises more questions than he answers.
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"And we will tell the terrorists, we will win and you will lose" and hope to hell they believe me.-John Kerry

[larrygj]

Good points, not much "investigative journalism" there.

All in all, though, if my experience is any indication, I thought before SBVT came on the scene that Kerry's medals were beyond question and solidly won. Now I know some of them for sure weren't and question the rest, or think they should not have been awarded (or accepted!) in the first place (Dole: "just some scratches"). So regardless of the details of the truth, the shine has come off the Kerry hero facade, leaving little left. And his incontrovertible backstabbing and treason in 1970-1071 make him truly unfit for command. You might say the first ad softened him up, the second one knocked him down. I don't think I'm the only one with this reaction (a non-vet who never paid any attention to this before now).

Larry

[7rrfs]