SwiftVets.com

[DenisC]

I guess this will be our next "John Kerrys" against a just war. I just saw a few of these young "Vet's?" loaded with Ribbons on MSNBC. Where is our Stolen Valon author?

I could not find any name of the founders or supporter's. Anyone know how to do that? ( www.IVAW.NET )
_________________
DenisC
173rd Airborne, RVN '65-67'

[Jim Peterson]

Hey Denis (Thats that low southern Hey as in Hello)

You appear to be an old timer so care must be taken these days with ribbons. A young troop getting out after 4 years would have at least the NDSM, Army Service Ribbon and GCM. If he made NCO then he would also have the NCOPD ribbon. Add in one AR COM and an AAM and he would have two full rows. One trip out east could add a third row real easy. Then again.........you could be right .
_________________
Pete

Training Aid for the staff Mar 74-Apr 95

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

Wonder if the communists are feeding them anti-war, anti-American propaganda, too?

I guess in this case, it would be the Islamikazes doing that, not the KGB, this time.

Here we go with the inflated "American-caused" Iraqi casualties.

Smear another generation of soldiers?

Not while there's breath in my body!
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[Truegrit]

Right now 8/29 at 4:25 E.T., if you go to CNN.com web site, the home page shows a banner of the "Iraq Veterans Against the War" with guys in military uniforms.

Here we go again! VVAW all over again. I wonder if the guys marching in the desert camouflage outfits are bogus or real vets?
_________________
Ted Harwood, Ph.D.
Enlisted, U.S. Army ('57-'60)

[Paul]

"Wonder if the communists are feeding them anti-war, anti-American propaganda, too?" {NNN}

Yep, it's the "usual suspects" who are involved; just as with the rest of the new anti-war movement. Hey, these people never left or ceased their beliefs and activities.

From the articles that I saw when the IVAW formed it was mentioned that either the Socialist Workers of the World or the Socialist Action Youth (or whichever of them, I don't remember which particular one now) were formally affiliated with them, just as whichever it was had been with VVAW back in the '60s and '70s.

Marxism is alive and well, actually flourishing. Hey, both Presidents in Venezuela and Brazil are Marxist and have established cordial relations with Castro who seems determined to live forever. Even if he doesn’t, Cuba remains firmly communist. The People’s Republic of China, Vietnam and north Korea are still chugging right along. . . Various Marxist insurgencies in Latin America and the Philippines remain quite “vibrant” as well as quite active. . .

Marxist-Leninism isn't too popular these days, except among some of the American and European Feminists. But Marxist-Maoism is obviously quite healthy now that it's added capitalism among the means of advancing itself and Marxisist-Gramsciism is actually flourishing. Brazilian universities seem to be the new world-center for Gramsci studies.

Hey, even in Russia, ole President Putin has been driving the new commemorative stamps and such of past KGB heroes from the Soviet era -- he's getting sentimental about his old "Alma Mater," I guess?

Just because the main stream press unsurprisingly mentions them only very rarely and only when there's no avoiding it, doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't active. . .
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Paul

[roughfun]

I thought nowdays everyone was a volunteer. Were they forced into the military against their will? Semper Fi.

[Paul]

I double checked.

Unless it was in another article, then it wasn't Socialist Workers of the World or the Socialist Action Youth, but the article I was thinking about when typing the above noted:

"Not unlike Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, the Iraq peace group is being embraced by extremist organizations like the Communist Party USA."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39789


Which means, Socialist Workers of the World and Socialist Action Youth are at least part of the alliance. There's soooo many of them with sooo similar names. . . I was surprised in 2000 how many each had little individual group of "...Socialist...." had their own Presidential candidate on the ballets in some places.
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Paul

[Paul]

I thought nowdays everyone was a volunteer. Were they forced into the military against their will? {roughfun}

I'm sure they'll be more than ready to protest conscription should it come to that – within minutes is my guess. . .

But these guys were apparently disillusioned at what they saw. According to this article there were only 30 of them when it formed. I’m not surprised 30 were found out of a few hundred thousand.

I don't know what the tally is now, but the numbers of conscientious objectors who discovered that they were conscientious objectors after the post 9-11 mobilizations rose into the hundreds rather quickly.

That and the rallies was some of the fasted organizing that I've seen from the current anti-war movement; the organizations complete with lawyers and legal counsel encouraging and assisting filing as a conscientious objector sprung up like dandelions on a lawn back at least as early as 2002.

This group took a little longer, but all of it is obviously organizing and moving much much faster than during Vietnam - building on all of their past experience, lessons learned and the fact demonstrated world-wide that millions can be incited to pour into the street by nothing more substantial than bad Iraqi propaganda. . . .

Looking at the initial reports of New York, then I see that all of the old visual props are being broken out again for that march as well. . .

"A new organization, Iraq Veterans Against the War, is just that – an organization inspired by Kerry's own Vietnam Veterans Against the War legacy.

The group was actually conceived last week during Kerry's nominating convention in New York.

And the horror stories these vets are remarkably similar – though not as harrowing – as those told by Kerry in 1971 when he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. . . .

Mike Hoffman, who heads the new group, currently about 30 strong, says he's not sure the election of Kerry as president will bring about any change in Iraq war policy."

-from the above mentioned article and link.
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Paul

[Paul]

". . . care must be taken these days with ribbons." {Jim Peterson}

This is true. It's astonishing how rapidly the numbers of ribbons increase. I was stunned by the number of them that my nephew has accumlated. Ribbons and berets. . .
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Paul

[rb325th]

I Googled Mike Hoffman and came up with a Photographer and an Instructor at the USNA. There are other names there and I am not going to denegrate an entire Branch of Service, but seems many of the objections and problems in Iraq have come from the National Guard. This is coming from a 6 year National Guard Vet himself so please do not jump all over me please.
There are many issues involved in why I think there are so many "morale" problems. Mostly have to do with the way the previous administration dealt with the Military. It became a Social Experiment and it was not fun to be in the Service then at all. I served 2 years on Active Duty during those years and I did not like the changes that were occuring and felt they were counter productive to the purpose of the Military, that being to fight and defeat the enemey in a violent and efficient manner.
From the lessening of standards in Basic Training, Co-Ed Basic for non Combat Arms in the Army, Don't ask Don't Tell (allow or don't, that compromise caused a lot of problems), less money for training, the whole image driven mentality of Recruitment (Army of One).
The list goes on and on.
In the end we end up with Soldiers acting like hoodlums in a Prison, not having their weapons operatin properly for lack of maintenance (the whole PFC Lynch Saga), Soldiers declaring they only signed up for the benefits.
I am honestly not surprised by the emergence of this group at all. There numbers will grow, just as the Soldiers for Common Sense did in the build up to the Iraq War, run by a couple of clowns, one of whom was a Poser and their forum was full of them, I busted a few personaly on there.
This group of malcontents will be no better I am sure, and probably far worse.
_________________
U.S. Army 1983-1995, 11C1P/11H2P NBTDT

[minnie presley]

I cannot vbeleive these people no one forced them into the service, I just e-mailed them, suggesting that if this was a useless war then maybe they should all move to iran and live under a dictatorship, very similair to sadddan,

[GoophyDog]

Here's the registrar info: I added the bold to show the creation date.

Registrant:
Michael Hoffman
63 N Delmorr Ave
Apt 5
Morrisville, Pennsylvania 19067
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: IVAW.NET
Created on: 18-Jul-04
Expires on: 18-Jul-06
Last Updated on: 18-Aug-04

Administrative Contact:
Hoffman, Michael (e-mail deleted by admin/me#1)
63 N Delmorr Ave
Apt 5
Morrisville, Pennsylvania 19067
United States
(phone deleted by admin/me#1) Fax --
Technical Contact:
Hoffman, Michael (e-mail deleted by admin/me#1)
63 N Delmorr Ave
Apt 5
Morrisville, Pennsylvania 19067
United States
(phone deleted by admin/me#1) Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.XEALOT.COM
NS2.XEALOT.COM

note: personal e-mail and phone# deleted as per forum policy...they're easy enough to obtain should you be interested/me#1
_________________
Why ask? Because it needs asking.

[jwb7605]

This thread prompted me to send this e-mail:

"35 years ago" ... "ancient history" ... etc.
Here's what could happen when you become me (56 years old):
http://www.ivaw.net/

One of these a**holes might be running for president.

Semper Fi, son.
It ain't gonna happen if I can help affect things.

[Grampa]

[Porsche944]

My older sister serves in the Guard as a MediVac air crewman with MOSs for maintenance on AH-64s, Uh-1s and OH-58s. Earlier this year her unit was activated and spent about 6 months "back filling" for units deployed from Ft. Hood.

When her "tour" was over she stopped by my place in Charlotte, NC and we had some time to swap stories and tell each other lies.

Anyway, one thing that really got her blood pressure up was the fact that so many of the troops in her unit were whining about being activated.

When she got back to her home in Richmond VA, the first thing she did was ask to be re-assigned to a similar unit out of Georgia. Apparently this unit it totally Gung-Ho. She had the opportunity to work with them while she was at Ft. Hood, and their professionalism, dedication, loyalty, and esprit-de-corps struck a very deep chord.

Anyway, let's not sell them all short, but you're right, there is way too much whining going on.
_________________
Cliff Hipsher
ICC USN (Ret.)
7/70-6/92