SwiftVets.com

SERVED_USMC · Seaman Recruit Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 7

Michael,

I think it would be very easy to determine who is being truthful and who is not being truthful if you could get Kerry and his crew members to agree. First, who is willing to undergo a polygraph exam? Will their “leader/hero”, Kerry, stand up and take a polygraph first?

Then simply follow the money! Who has something to gain by lying? The SBVT could easily be sued by Kerry since he has plenty of money and lawyers, including Edwards, if he really believed these men are lying. They only face being criticized and harassed for telling the truth to the American people so they can decide for themselves if this is the type of man they want to run the nation.

Think! Since they stress that Kerry volunteered for Vietnam it would seem that he supported the Vietnam conflict and as a heroic figure he wanted to serve his country. Doesn’t seems unlikely that such a heroic and gallant man would abandon his men and his unit? After three purple hearts he could have simply said “hell no, I’m staying for my full tour of duty”. That would demonstrate courage and loyalty.

As for your sensible question. “Now - let me ask - seriously - are you not concerned that in a climate that seems to me to be very divisive and hateful in our divided country that this debate in society at large could rip us apart?”

Haven’t we been silent long enough? When we returned from Vietnam we were not given counseling. As a rule we were discharged and left to deal. Many vets turned to alcohol and drugs, couldn’t hold a job and suffered a myriad of human problems.

Perhaps it’s time to speak for those who can’t speak any longer. If not now, when?

Michael B. Smith · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 24

[quote="d19thdoc"]Michael,
Part of the reason some of us are hostile in our responses to anyone who appears here to question what we are about is that many Vietnam Vets feel like this is a repeat of the smears we endured from the left for a lifetime, of which John Kerry was the principle spokesman - he did not start it, but he validated it for the mainstream; and partly because in the early days of this board (go back on the index page and click the high number pages) we were over run with vile trolls, some posing as "uninformed" innocents, <<<<<<

I can understand that, and appriciate your honesty on that matter!

But - if the questions are not asked of you, and your brethren, then folks of my generation (a lot of whom are to old to be your children, yet old enough to be your younger siblings) will remain confused about something that is a memory, but nothing we paid attention to!

If the truth is to be told and heard, then I, (we) have to ask you (you being your generation). Most history books, don't say, what the vast majority of you are saying now. This is unfortunate, and hopefully, God willing, the truth can finally be told and the true history can be written.

Perhaps it is good that this debate is occuring, even though it is a scary prospect to watch as otherwise good men attack one another. I know - for my part, I only know what I have been told. Did they embellish their stories? perhaps they did! But I figured the only way to find out the truth now - was to ask those who had 1st hand experience during a time when it seems as though many are wanting to tell the truth without embelleshment.

I can only hope and pray to the Grand Architect of the Universe that the country will debate this issue - get it resolved, and move beyond it. Not to lessen the importance of what you or any other Vietnam Vet has to say (for it is extremely important) there are other, more recent issues that must be addressed.

As for your question about Carter - we wouldn't have won the cold war as quickly as we did by Having President Reagan, who by the way, was the Commander in Chief during my tenure and had my full support.

Again - I thank you for your responses, and I appriciate the fact that you took the time to help me to better understand this issue -

Sincerely & fraternally
Michael Berryman Smith
Fort Worth, Texas
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Michael B. Smith

Michael B. Smith · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 24

As for your sensible question. “Now - let me ask - seriously - are you not concerned that in a climate that seems to me to be very divisive and hateful in our divided country that this debate in society at large could rip us apart?”

Haven’t we been silent long enough? When we returned from Vietnam we were not given counseling. As a rule we were discharged and left to deal. Many vets turned to alcohol and drugs, couldn’t hold a job and suffered a myriad of human problems.

Perhaps it’s time to speak for those who can’t speak any longer. If not now, when?[/quote]<<

All though i stand by my question - I would agree 150% that the truth needs to come out about the Vietnam Conflict. You and your brethren were treated horribly when you came home, and there is no possible excuse the peers of your generation (including Kerry) that did those things can give now that excuses that behavior.

I firmly believe (hence, my reason for posing the questions I did at the beginning of this thread) that the truth must be told so that OUR country can heal from a wound that apparently only scabed over and never completely healed. Never the less - in my mind - people seem very hateful and intolerant of one another anymore. And it is disheartening. It saddens me to no end that I asked a question and recieved (although very few in number) some rather hateful responses. Not to weep in my own beer (for I am not), but if we are going to talk about it as a Nation - which I assume is what is starting to happen, then those asking the questions of those who were there, can not be attacked for asking the questions! Fortunately - almost to a number - most responses here have been very forthright, informative and aimable.

I have several books (suggested here) that I am ordering to read so that I can enlighten myself about the conflict. And I thank you and everyone else for having made the effort to help me understand this issue. In 61 post or so - I have learned more than I did in High school history about this conflict! Sad - isn't it?

Sincerely and fraternally
Michael Berryman Smith
Fort Worth, Texas
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Michael B. Smith

Michael B. Smith · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 24

I might mention - not that it matters a hill of beans, but not only did I serve, both my both my brothers and our little sister served during the 80's, and my daughter is now serving in the US Airforce.

Fortunately for me - she was stationed at Yakota AFB, Japan, and - YES, I still "hang the moon" in her eyes!

God bless you all
MBS
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Michael B. Smith

TEWSPilot · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject:

Michael, did you read my response earlier? Did you visit my website and read what I asked you to read? If nothing else, click on my poem and read my story. I'm a Denton native -- not there any longer -- and I graduated from North Texas the same time "Mean Joe Green" did. If you don't find answers to most of your questions at this site or through mine, you just aren't looking.

Vote your conscience, but this year, a vote for the Libertarian candidate is a vote for John Kerry. Even Neal Boortz realizes that, and he is as Libertarian as they come. The most important issue to consider in this election is "who will best defend this country against Islamofascists?" If we lose this war, none of the other issues will matter -- or exist.
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Michael B. Smith · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 24

yes I did - and yes I am slowely browsing all the things you mentioned. Sorry i did not respond directly to you. My bad - I meant to, but got caught up in another response.

As for my vote - the only thing you're forgetting, in Texas - I have the luxery of voting my consious, as no matter what, President Bush will get the electoral votes. Now - I'f I were in Ohio, FLA - some place like that - yes - I would have a real delima on my hands and would have no choice to vote for the President.

As a fellow Texan, you certainly understand, more than most outside of Texas the problem we have with illegals. They are overunning our country and Bush's purposal to give them amnesty is not only conservative, but is an issue I have a major problem with. That and the fact that he, and even my hero Sen. McCain who are purposing suing 527's which is a direct and frontal assault on our 1st amendment rights.

Thank you for taking the time to have responded and giving me the websites. I am taking all the really good info I have gotten here and looking at it.

Sincerely
Michael Berryman Smith
Fort Worth, Texas
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Michael B. Smith

LineGrunt · Former Member Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 1

Michael - I was one of those Vietman vets that you spoke of; those that were still in the service in the 80's. I served 24 years with various US Army Infantry units and later in Special Forces units, from '68 until '92. All the way from Vietnam until after the first Gulf War (I was actually an Armor M1A1H Abrams unit commander in GW I - I made the change from Infantry to Armor in '88 - I was getting old and tired and I figured I owed it to myself to ride rather than hump through the next war).

When it comes to talking about "atrocities" you'd probably do better to ask some of the ground troops that were actually in the combat zones over there about those. The Navy was very isolated and insulated in that particular regard, I believe. With the exception of those Navy corpsmen that served as medics with the Marines, perhaps.

Michael B. Smith · Seaman Recruit Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 24

Wow - okay - I appriciate the frankness, I really don't know what to say. It is kinda stunning to say the least to actually read that.

I reckon, this is why I wanted to ask of you Vietnam vets about this issue. I'm sure you are not inferring that all this was comman place, but it happened none the less, and this is where I get so damned confused about this issue with Kerry saying what he said in 1971.

I am by no means defending his actions, and I can understand and appriciate how pissed Viet. Vets are about it. But wasn't his saying those things that happened - doing what he thought was best to shed light on this issue during those years?

I dunno - I guess short of reading and seeking all the info that has been suggested here, I - and many good people in America will remain confused. It seems like, he and other vets that are saying this things are being called liars and traitors. But are they? I don't support Kerry, but it is for reasons other than this issue. But I like to be fair and objective, even with those that I disagree with.

I thank you for your service and for taking the time to respond with your very frank message.

Sincerely
Michael B Smith
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Michael B. Smith

TEWSPilot · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject:

LineGrunt, I call you out as a poser and a liar. If what you claim is true, then I also call you out as a self-confessed war criminal, along with John Kerry. Contact me through my website (click on the link in my signature) and I will cheerfully put you in touch with the athorities who will be happy to take your sworn statements and Mr. B. G. Burkett, who will help you write your book. You just may be the first one in over 35 years who has been willing to swear to those "attrocities". Not even the VVAW posers were that dumb.

Care to put your reputation and the prospect of spending a few years in Federal Prison on the table?
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JN173 · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:11 pm Post subject:

Sgt-Keeper · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 96

This was a good post until this poser showed up. Poser because the questions were directed at Viet Nam veterans, not just any veteran, which you may well be. But your answer smacks of hippy disinformation, misinformation, and outright lies. You know nothing about napalm in battle & how it turned the tide in our favor, how many times it was used, or why. Knowing so much, why was it called agent orange? Please cite the source of your quotes. Other than that, "move on" misses you.
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militarybrat · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:23 pm Post subject: Mr. Vietnam Veteran

Michael,
I am not confused in Texas or anyplace else......I am an RN who saw and still sees what the war has and did and still does to the vets..I was at Clark Field hospital where we patched up those that could make it to us before they went state side and if you want to trade horror stories I am sure I can match story for story but not what our guys did but what was done to them..they were kids not "privledged children of the elite", not protestors in the street, not those that went to Canada or England to stay hid until things changed but kids that came in holding their guts in black plastic bags, kids without legs, feet or arms or should I tell you about the 18 yr old without either arms or legs because he stepped on a landmine " he told me crying " Now I can not even kill myself without help from somebody else. I am helpless to help myself".....Never one time did anyone one of these guys confess to me about their atrocities but plenty talked to me about children that came up for candy or another biggie was chewing gum that threw gernades or got them shot, or women that appeared friendly and "pregnant" that caused their injuries, some were injuried by perviously "friendly" viets............Yes, I have no doubt there were things that happened but not as Kerry testified before Congress "ALL VETS EVERYDAY" He testified as it was first hand knowledge and he also said he committed atrocites now he has his surragates say he was just repeating what others said!!!!!! In my opinion he, Jane Fonda and others caused 1000's of our soldiers to be killed and wounded plus disgraced us around the world...Isn't it American to say you are innocent until proven guilty??????? What right did Kerry have to use the terms "ALL" and "everyday" and then change his mind but not apologize to those he injuried and is continuing to injure????? Then you come forward and add to the hearsay by saying these things were told to you!!!!!!!!!!!! The men I saw had to recieve tons of narcotics yet even under the influence of drugs no one "confessed" and for some of them it was THEIR DEATH BED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I nor anyone else is asking you to vote for Bush we just want people to take responsibitlity and tell the truth and quit hurting others with their lies!!!!!!
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navy and air force military brat says enough is enough

militarybrat · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject:

To line Grunt,
I also call you an imposter!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll tell you about the effects of Agent orange and Napalm it effected our soldiers and have you ever seen an African American that exposed to Napalm at that time????? well.......I did 100's and it turned their skin what was left of it pale pink to white...War caused injuries and pain on both sides..I am sick to death of hearing the past few weeks what we did to others..what about what they did to us??????? and what we did to ourselves???????????? Sad

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navy and air force military brat says enough is enough

AMOS · Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject: No biggie.

For the record, I was USMC MOS 0311...........a grunt. Never touched a gook's ear. or committed any other atrocities, for that matter. I do have to wonder what's is atrocious about cutting an ear off a dead gook, though.

I also have to wonder if someone is telling war stories.

Semper Fidelis.

Amos.

mkj1953 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 11

Michael,

I entered the service in 79' and the majority of the senior leadership I served with were Viet Nam Vets. In the Navy and the Corps there was a rule of thumb. Those who told "in the Nam" stories were most often the ones who were never there or spent their tours so far away from the action that the only real "war stories" they have to tell were tales of surviving the bars of Saigon.

If you want to know what really happened go befriend a Vet. If you gain his trust he may tell you he was “there.” If you’re lucky, in 5 or 10 years he may pass on some of his memories. They will not be of firefights or atrocities but of friendships and friends lost, of being scared, and others being brave. I have more friends from that era than you could count and not one of them has ever bragged on himself or made himself out to be anything other than a survivor.

If that doesn’t work Mike, and you still don’t believe, and if you are brave enough, take a walk in DC one cold winter evening, place your hand on The Wall, THEIR WALL, stop thinking of yourself and listen. If you are lucky Mike, and if you are found worthy, 58,245 veterans will gladly enlighten you on the virtues of humble, quiet, dignified service.

MKJ,
Virginia
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MKJ