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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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 Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 2:53 am Post subject: The liberals' creed |
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The liberals' creed
as discerned by Robert Alt at No Left Turns ( http://ashbrook.org/publicat/oped/alt/04/creed.html ) referenced at http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/006792.php. Here is part of it:
"We believe that President Bush lied.
We believe that Prime Minister Blair lied.
We believe that when Hillary Clinton and Dick Gephardt voted for the war based on the same intelligence relied upon by Bush and Blair, they made reasonable decisions based on the intelligence available at the time.
"We believe that the administration did not make the case for war;
We believe that the administration offered many different reasons but could not offer a coherent message explaining the need to go to war;
We believe that the administration made perfectly clear that the only reason we were going to war was because of the threat from WMDs.
"We believe that no one should question our statement that we 'support our troops;'
We believe that the best thing that could happen for this country would be for Bush to lose in November;
We believe that the best way for Bush to lose in November is for the Iraq effort to go poorly, even if that means that more Iraqis and troops will die;
We believe that most of the troops are minorities and the poor;
We believe that when the word 'heroes' is used to describe our troops, it should always be enclosed in scare quotes.
"We believe that Vietnam is the lens through which all wars should be viewed.
We believe that soldiers in Vietnam were baby killers;
We believe that John Kerry is a hero for his service in Vietnam." |
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Marine4life
Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 14 May 2004
Posts: 591
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 12:57 am Post subject: |
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That was very good FDL, and accurate as well. Look at Kerry's voting record. He has voted for and against almost every issue put in front of him. They all voted for ousting Sadaam but now say that they are all against it and were lied to by the CIC. Either they ignorant and don't do their homework, came to the same conclusion that Bush did, or are two faced. You pick. Semper Fi.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes. |
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Craig
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 2:45 am Post subject: Re: The liberals' creed |
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| fortdixlover wrote: | The liberals' creed
as discerned by Robert Alt at No Left Turns ( http://ashbrook.org/publicat/oped/alt/04/creed.html ) referenced at http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/006792.php. Here is part of it:
"We believe that President Bush lied.
We believe that Prime Minister Blair lied.
We believe that when Hillary Clinton and Dick Gephardt voted for the war based on the same intelligence relied upon by Bush and Blair, they made reasonable decisions based on the intelligence available at the time.
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How about "Some of us believe that politicians from one side of the other did not get where they are by being overly honest
Some of us believe that some of the more or less honest and dishonest politicians voted the way they did for political expedience and/or believing the ******** they were told was "proof". And much of that "proof" was offered by the current administration - and folks was softened up by what was taken for granted by the past administration and a lot of folks in general throughout the world.
But even folks whose own intelligence took it for granted that Saddam had the nasty stuff - they wanted evidence that he had it and were reviled in US for that.
Brings to mind about Chilabi. Maybe is good that is not going to be a repeat of de Gaulle, who the Allies were so determined to institute and screw actual French patriots. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We believe that when Hillary Clinton and Dick Gephardt voted for the war based on the same intelligence relied upon by Bush and Blair, they made reasonable decisions based on the intelligence available at the time. |
Not true. Bush persuaded Congress that he was privy to intelligence in his PDB that even the Intelligence Committees didn't have. Turns out it was bullcrap.
The rest is just a bunch of blahblah. |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:42 am Post subject: |
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What makes a rightwing nut like Robert Alt an "expert" on what liberals believe? This is common proganda technique used by Limbaugh et. al.
How about SOME liberals believe different things. Why must you insist on generalizing about groups of people?
Right wingers always do that!
Do I believe that Vietnam vets are baby killers? No, in fact I intend to vote for a REAL Vietnam vet in the next election. Don't be a fool and accept this stupid list as gospel.
Sparky's right, bunch a' blah blah. |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Quote: | | We believe that when Hillary Clinton and Dick Gephardt voted for the war based on the same intelligence relied upon by Bush and Blair, they made reasonable decisions based on the intelligence available at the time. |
Not true. Bush persuaded Congress that he was privy to intelligence in his PDB that even the Intelligence Committees didn't have. Turns out it was bullcrap.
The rest is just a bunch of blahblah. |
So why didn't the Intelligence Committees call him on this? Afterall, the oversight committees are supposed to see everything. Or are you just making up stories?
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Jeremy Eaton
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Eaton wrote: | How about SOME liberals believe different things. Why must you insist on generalizing about groups of people?
Right wingers always do that! |
Isn't that a generalization about a group of people?
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | Jeremy Eaton wrote: | How about SOME liberals believe different things. Why must you insist on generalizing about groups of people?
Right wingers always do that! |
Isn't that a generalization about a group of people?
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LOL - someone slipped up and you nailed him.
Myself thinks that there are maybe a couple "right wingers" frequenting this forum who are above that. - You are not one of them though.
But do you think the scamp really made so much misstatement as an ironic remark?
I sure do not know. I do know that in unmoderated forums that someone might call me a liberal and I like to respond with remark uncomplimentary remarks about his momma.
I am a very much "right to bear arms" person. Even though I am not allowed to have them. I am also a very much states rights person - seem even more so than is the general Republican approach. But US citizen rights trump state rights every time.
Perversion of interstate commerce is one example. If I grow me a marijuana plant the federal justification is that I might sell some of it to someone in another state. - Then that seems to lead to DEA busting doctors for prescribing what they might judge as an adequate amount of narcotic pain killer and outlawing opium or some of its derivatives altogether.
I barely care if they legalize marijuana - for my own sake. I can manage to smoke it any damned time I please anyway.
Hey! I am shocked and awed that Xians (not Christians but Xians) who would follow the letter of the Bible would stand for outlawing what their God has specifically given.
Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
That is treated as some hippie nonsense but I would think that them "literal" Xians would think that their god would have made exception there if it wanted exception there. Well, this god created the bush and knew what it was - right?
Some ******** have bitched that there is poisonous plants.
Oh well. Only fruit of one plant that this 'god' forbade to eat. Could we figure that it was cannabis or a poppy or a coca plant? Does fungi count?
Oh well. Did I drift off topic? |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So why didn't the Intelligence Committees call him on this? |
They had no choice but to believe him or call him a liar. The PDB isn't available even to the intelligence committees except in extremely rare circumstances.
Bush's failures on 9/11 has led to one of those rare instances after it appeared that Bush misled Congress.
From the Washington Post:
Despite its limitations, an agreement with the White House that gives an independent Sept. 11 commission access to intelligence briefings for Presidents Bush and Bill Clinton is unprecedented, making an outside panel privy to some of the executive branch's most closely held secrets for the first time, according to commission officials and legal experts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A45999-2003Nov15 |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Now it's my turn to laugh.
This emoticon was supposed to be sarcasm for comic effect. I was illustrating the point.
I guess I didn't make the joke obvious enough. (It's not funny if you have to explain it to them)
You were right though, I did screw up! Although, not about the generalization, that was intentional.
I didn't read the link in the first post!
I just posted my thoughts. I assumed it was from a right winger, but it's not! It's from an actual liberal. The moral of the story is to read the links. You might learn something...Or maybe it's avoid thinking of things in an us versus them mentality. It can lead to poor assumptions and rash judgements. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | We believe that soldiers in Vietnam were baby killers;
We believe that John Kerry is a hero for his service in Vietnam." |
Does this make Kerry a hero baby killer? Or, a baby killer hero? Since he too was in Vietnam and they believe soldiers there were baby killers, shouldn't they be saying his herosim is for his anti-war stance? Or, did he stop being a baby killer to them?
This is why I can't believe much of anything coming from the ridiculous left. When you talk out of both sides of your mouth, you start sounding downright silly. |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | Jeremy Eaton wrote: | How about SOME liberals believe different things. Why must you insist on generalizing about groups of people?
Right wingers always do that! |
Isn't that a generalization about a group of people?
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ROFL  |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:20 am Post subject: |
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There is no contradiction:
How about this, I don't think anybody will contest this:
1. An uknown quantity of babies were killed in Viet Nam by some American soldiers.
2. Most the soldiers served honorably and with conscience given the situations they were put in.
Now we can argue about whether Kerry was not a soldier with conscience. However, as he reported these atrocities and sought an end to the Viet Nam war when he returned home.
I think Kerry did the best he could given the situation. Ergo no contradiction.
I can't tell if you really didn't think it through that far, or you just wanted to paint liberals in a certain light. |
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Craig
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | | Quote: | We believe that soldiers in Vietnam were baby killers;
We believe that John Kerry is a hero for his service in Vietnam." |
Does this make Kerry a hero baby killer? Or, a baby killer hero? Since he too was in Vietnam and they believe soldiers there were baby killers, shouldn't they be saying his herosim is for his anti-war stance? Or, did he stop being a baby killer to them?
This is why I can't believe much of anything coming from the ridiculous left. When you talk out of both sides of your mouth, you start sounding downright silly. |
My goodness. Someone who uses his tongue for TP complains about what sides someone else speaks.
Here dear, lick me next.  |
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