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ARW3A
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
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 Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: I just freak'n realized... |
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...the following:
1st Purple Heart (2/28/69) (This is the citation date.)
Silver Star (2/28/69)
2nd Purple Heart (2/20/69)
3rd Purple Heart (3/13/69)
Bronze Star (3/13/69)
People talk as if he got all his medals in only 4 1/2 months. That's total BS! Kerry received all his medals in 4 WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!
I'm new to this so, if this has been repeated ad naseum before then I apologize. |
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scraper3
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Amazing, isn't it? |
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rb325th
Admiral
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 1334
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Ok even discounting the first PH was from his December accident with a grenade launcher,a 4 week span for the Awarding of a Silver Star, Bronze Star (V), and 2 more Purple Hearts is just dumbfounding!
Your right, we always hear about the 4 months, but this realy puts into even more perspective!!
_________________
U.S. Army 1983-1995, 11C1P/11H2P NBTDT |
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sevry
Commander
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| rb325th wrote: | Ok even discounting the first PH was from his December accident with a grenade launcher,a 4 week span for the Awarding of a Silver Star, Bronze Star (V), and 2 more Purple Hearts is just dumbfounding!
Your right, we always hear about the 4 months, but this realy puts into even more perspective!! |
What really puts it into perspective is this. This is putatively the record of practically another Audie Murphy. You have the most decorated officer in that base, awarded as a rookie in his first few months after transferring from only a few months on the 44, with three PH, 1 SS, 1 BS, and what happens as soon as his appreciative fellow officers learn of his third PH? They immediately pay him a visit and suggest that he take advantage of a Navy reassignment reg, and move his wounded butt on out - for the good of the unit, and the good of the Navy.
Something - you know - is not quite kosher. Either Kerry was one of the greatest heroes of that era, or he's a fraud and was seen as such by those serving shoulder to shoulder with him.
Is it any wonder the LM likes this guy so much? He's just like them. |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:10 am Post subject: Re: I just freak'n realized... |
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| ARW3A wrote: | ...the following:
1st Purple Heart (2/28/69) (This is the citation date.)
Silver Star (2/28/69)
2nd Purple Heart (2/20/69)
3rd Purple Heart (3/13/69)
Bronze Star (3/13/69)
People talk as if he got all his medals in only 4 1/2 months. That's total BS! Kerry received all his medals in 4 WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!
I'm new to this so, if this has been repeated ad naseum before then I apologize. |
These were the citations. This is different from the dates he was authorized or approved for them. The PH citations 2nd and 3rd are hosed up on his website. They have him earning his 3rd before he got the 2nd. It is obviously a clerical mistake but one you should point out everytime someone says that the Navy records are backing him up. Navy records are no more infallible than any other system - especially when the genesis of several of the awards come from "his" After-Action reports.
- instigator
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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BuffaloJack
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 1637
Location: Buffalo, New York
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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In Kerry's list of medals there's one missing.
Kerry was awarded VN Commie medal "Hero of Communist Victory" in 1983 for the part he played in the anti-war movement that aided the VN cause. I'll bet he's got that medal hidden away and not on display with his US medals.
Check the link for more on Kerry's commie medal.
http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_4232.shtml |
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tugboatphil
Ensign
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 70
Location: Floyd, Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: I just freak'n realized... |
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| NavyChief wrote: | It is obviously a clerical mistake but one you should point out everytime someone says that the Navy records are backing him up. Navy records are no more infallible than any other system - especially when the genesis of several of the awards come from "his" After-Action reports.
- instigator |
Good point, Chief. Anyone who has pulled their microfiche when going up for Chief knows just how infallible Navy Records are. On another view of the same point, when wanting to back up his story, the "Navy" said so, so it's true. However, this is the same "Navy" that Kerry said Ordered and Condoned war attrocities, at all levels of the Chain of Command.
History is not necesarily what happened, it's what the first one to record it SAYS happened.
_________________
Phil Toth
BMC(SW) ret
Don't Sweat the Mule Goin' Blind,
Just Keep Loadin' the Wagon. |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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tugboat,
loved your quote
| Quote: | | History is not necesarily what happened, it's what the first one to record it SAYS happened. |
- instigator
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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ARW3A
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: I just freak'n realized... |
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| NavyChief wrote: | | These were the citations. This is different from the dates he was authorized or approved for them. |
No. All the dates I listed were the action dates except the 1st purple heart. The first purple heart action was December 2, '68 but the citation date was 2/28/69. Thus, it took JFK 6 weeks (from 1/30/69 to 3/13/69) into his 94 PCF days to calculate and execute a plan to leave early with 3 purple hearts and with as many medals as possible.
Hmmm...he did it all in only 6 weeks. Not bad. Now that I think aboput it Kerry is fairly appealing as a presidential candidate when he's been properly motivated. |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: I just freak'n realized... |
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| ARW3A wrote: | | NavyChief wrote: | | These were the citations. This is different from the dates he was authorized or approved for them. |
No. All the dates I listed were the action dates except the 1st purple heart. The first purple heart action was December 2, '68 but the citation date was 2/28/69. Thus, it took JFK 6 weeks (from 1/30/69 to 3/13/69) into his 94 PCF days to calculate and execute a plan to leave early with 3 purple hearts and with as many medals as possible.
Hmmm...he did it all in only 6 weeks. Not bad. Now that I think aboput it Kerry is fairly appealing as a presidential candidate when he's been properly motivated. |
I see now what you meant. But Tom Wright said he and several other OINC's told Kerry to leave after the 3rd PH. I'm not sure if Kerry really planned to leave that soon according to what Tom said. It certainly looks that way, though.
- instigator
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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ARW3A
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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The more I read all the accounts from all the sides the more it appears that some of the PCF 94 crewman were playing a medal game. Recommending each other in a quid pro quo. The key for me is the reoccuring themes...
1. "rocket (or mine) close aboard" in the description of nearly every Kerry medal account. Purple hearts as well as SS and Bronze.
2. Shrapnel wounds but no small weapon wounds nor any bullet holes despite the constant "enemy fire".
3. The lack of corrobarating witnesses from the other boats. Even Rood's op-ed states specifically that the B-40 was never fired even though Kerry's SS citation states it was.
4. Sandusky being the eyewitness for both the Bronze and Silver. |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| ARW3A wrote: | The more I read all the accounts from all the sides the more it appears that some of the PCF 94 crewman were playing a medal game. Recommending each other in a quid pro quo. The key for me is the reoccuring themes...
1. "rocket (or mine) close aboard" in the description of nearly every Kerry medal account. Purple hearts as well as SS and Bronze.
2. Shrapnel wounds but no small weapon wounds nor any bullet holes despite the constant "enemy fire".
3. The lack of corrobarating witnesses from the other boats. Even Rood's op-ed states specifically that the B-40 was never fired even though Kerry's SS citation states it was.
4. Sandusky being the eyewitness for both the Bronze and Silver. |
Re 1. The first instance this is recorded in the Kerry's Personnel Casualty Report. Kerry would have had to tell the Medical Officer why he was being treated and thus the language of "Mine close aboard". Then the report was sent with this wording. 10 days later, Sandusky writes up the award as eyewitness that a "mine close aboard". This was used to write the BS award citation. That is how this got in there. The original story was given by Kerry and that's what stuck. Note that the Command History for DIV 11 does not recount the story with great detail, nor does the SPOT REPORT written by Kerry after the action mention a mine close aboard. There was plenty of time in between to collaborate a story. In fact, many times you would have to ask: "what did you see? and you, what did you see? The SPOT REPORT is so obviously written from the perspective of the PCF-94 that it isn't funny.
2. Again shrapnel was confused with rice wound earlier in the day. The first mention is again in the Kerry Personnel Casualty Report (see 1.). There is no mention of this in Command History DIV 11, nor is there mention of this in Sandusky's eyewitness account for B.S. recommendation. Nor is there any damage reported to PCF-94 that matches shrapnel. In fact, shrapnel would have damaged the boat as well - they were made of aluminum.
3. The 28 Feb 69 incident is mysteriously missing from Kerry's website. The Command History reports it but not in great detail. However, it does say Kerry was the OTC and thus the SPOT REPORT 281130Z FEB 69 was written by Kerry, however it is not on his website.
4. Sandusky was the senior NCO aboard PCF-94. Whenever Kerry was not aboard, Sandusky was in charge. It was often the practice to choose the senior man to witness awards. However, Sandusky's loyalty to the facts is suspect in the case of his two write ups for Kerry.
As far as Kerry's boat was concerned: He received a majority of the highest medals, while his men received lower medals. Although the system is weighted this way - even today - the men under Kerry were probably not given as much recognition as they deserved.
- instigator
_________________
Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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greasepaint
Seaman
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 177
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone have an internet link to a graphic of
Kerry's Victory medal? |
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Misty
Lieutenant
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 223
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| rb325th wrote: | Ok even discounting the first PH was from his December accident with a grenade launcher,a 4 week span for the Awarding of a Silver Star, Bronze Star (V), and 2 more Purple Hearts is just dumbfounding!
Your right, we always hear about the 4 months, but this realy puts into even more perspective!! |
That's because most people who get a purple heart need time to recover from their injuries before they are in harm's way again. Of course, when you are talking about contusions and slivers, that's quite another thing! Kerry is despicable!
_________________
Misty
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Dad was in the Navy Pacific Fleet
Brother was on the USS Regulus - Vietnam
Husband was AirForce 3rd (34th) Tactical Fighter Wing - Security Police Bien Hoa Vietnam |
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Geano
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Kentucky
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Read lots of stuff...chkd lots of sites...I've come to conclusion that Command saw a way to get Kerry out of theater...and he took the hint.
_________________
MSM Lead Nov 3 2004 "Kerry Oval Office Hopes killed by 10,000 Mice..."
Candidate had declared mice "only a nuisance".
States they "moved too Swiftly".... |
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