SwiftVets.com :: View topic - Swift Boat Veteran for Truth. What is it?

SwiftVets.com
Service to Country

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Swift Boat Veteran for Truth. What is it?

This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.

SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Swift Vets and POWs for Truth

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

Morto
Seaman Recruit

Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject: Swift Boat Veteran for Truth. What is it?

I see that many posting here do not understand what this group is about.
I offer the following for your education.

Quote:

(May 4-Washington, D.C.) Today, a group of Swift Boat veterans from the unit in which Senator John Kerry served announced the formation of an organization, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The organization has been formed in order to bring the truth about Kerry to the American people. The organization intends to discuss Kerry’s war crimes charges, Kerry’s record and to request that Kerry authorize the Department of Defense to release the originals and the complete files relating to his military service and medical military records.

The group released a historic letter expressing the overwhelming opposition of those who served with Kerry or in his unit to his misrepresentation of his record and the unit’s record. The letter is signed by Swift Boat veterans at all levels and from the entire political spectrum; the entire chain of command during the period Kerry served in Vietnam; veterans who participated in the engagements resulting in his medals; and the majority of officers who served with him in Coastal Division 11, the unit in which he spent most of his four month tour of duty. Public circulation of the letter began one week ago and collected hundreds of signatures. The signers already make up a majority of the Swift Vets whose addresses can be found. The complete record of signers and comments will be posted on Swiftvets.com.

Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN (retired), Commander of Coastal Surveillance Force Vietnam (Commander Task Force 115) and chair of the group said, “I signed this letter because I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust - all absolute tenets of command.”

“We don’t understand why Kerry would make the centerpiece of his campaign an exaggerated account of his four month service in Vietnam 33 years ago, but since he is, we believe the American public is entitled to the truth about his service and about his charges about war crimes and atrocities,” explained John O’Neill, a Swift Boat veteran who took charge of Kerry’s boat a few months after Kerry’s departure and who debated Kerry in 1971.

The Swift Boat Vets for Truth include the entire chain of command above Kerry: Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard, Lt. Commander Elliott, Captain Charles Plumly, Captain Adrian Lonsdale USCG (retired) and Rear Admiral Hoffmann (retired), as well as enlisted men, officers, men who served with Mr. Kerry, men who served in the same group of Swift boats and men intimately familiar with the operations and conduct of Swift boat operations during the war. The group also includes James Zumwalt, Lt. Colonel, U.S.M.C. (retired), representing his father, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, and brother, Lt. Elmo Zumwalt III, both deceased.

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is a Special Purpose Political Action Committee and has no ties to the Bush/Cheney campaign or the Republican Party. It's members come from all political parties and persuasions.

Chairman, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann (retired)

Treasurer, Weymouth “Wey” Symmes

PO Box 26184

Alexandria, VA 22313

www.swiftvets.com

_________________
"History tells us that appeasement does not lead to peace. It invites an aggressor to test the will of a nation unprepared to meet that test." --Ronald Reagan

fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy

Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Swift Boat Veteran for Truth. What is it?

Morto wrote:

"History tells us that appeasement does not lead to peace. It invites an aggressor to test the will of a nation unprepared to meet that test." --Ronald Reagan

Morto, Reagan's statement is at the crux of the current predicament we face.

If it were not for tens of millions of people once again believing in appeasement of fascists, and in doing so (or speaking about doing so) encouraging the fascists, we would not have to worry so much about being blown to bits while flying, taking a train, or mingling in large crowds.

The numerous examples of genocide and mass murder in the 20th century would not have happened, either.

The Left (including the ludicrous posters on this board) are enablers of dictators, fascists, and mass murder through their moral weakness and words and acts of appeasement. Leftists are not evil for the most part ... but may as well be.

John Kerry's struggle in the 1970's was about appeasing the N. Vietnamese. That should not be forgotten.

The election is a referendum on whether the U.S. population learned anything from the fascists, thugs and dictators of the 20th century.

sparky
Former Member

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546

Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:06 am Post subject:

Quote:

enablers of dictators, fascists, and mass murder through their moral weakness and words and acts of appeasement.

Like the following US clients?

Arévalo, Marco (Guatemala: 1985-1991)
Bakr, Ahmad (Iraq: 1968-1979)
Banzer Suarez, Hugo (Bolivia: 1971-1978)
Barre, Siad (Somalia: 1979-1991)
Batista, Fulgencio (Cuba: 1940-44/1952-1959)
Betancourt Bello, Rumulo (Venezuela: 1959-1964)
Bokassa, Jean-Bedel (Central African Republic: 1966-1976)
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal (Brunei: 1984-2002)
Botha, P.W. (South Africa: 1978-1989)
Branco, Humberto (Brazil: 1964-1966)
Carmona, Pedro (Venezuela: 2002)
Cedras, Raoul (Haiti: 1991)
Christiani, Alfredo (El Salvador: 1989-1994)
Chun Doo Hwan (S. Korea: 1980-1988)
Cordova, Roberto (Honduras: 1981-1985)
Diem, Ngo Dinh (S. Vietnam: 1955-1963)
Duvalier, Francois (Haiti: 1957-1971)
Duvalier, Jean Claude (Haiti: 1971-1986)
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz (Saudi Arabia: 1969-2002)
Feisal, King (Iraq: 1939-1958)
Fujimori, Alberto (Peru: 1990-2002)
Hussein, Saddam (Iraq: 1979-1990)
Marcos, Ferdinand (Philippines: 1965-1986)
Martinez, Maximiliano (El Salvador: 1931-1944)
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire: 1965-1997)
Moi, Daniel (Kenya: 1978-2002)
Montt, Efrain (Guatemala: 1982-1983)
Noriega, Manuel (Panama: 1983-1989)
Odria, Manuel (Peru: 1948-1956)
Pahlevi, Rezi the Shah (Iran: 1953-1979)
Perez Jimenez, Marcos (Venezuela: 1952-5 Cool

Pinilla, Gustavo (Colombia: 1953-1957)
Pinochet, Augusto (Chile: 1973-1990)
Seaga, Edward (Jamaica: 1980-1989)
Somoza Sr., Anastasio (Nicaragua: 1936-1956)
Somoza Jr., Anastasio (Nicaragua: 1963-1979)
Stroessner, Alfredo (Paraguay: 1954-1989)
Suharto, General (Indonesia: 1966-1999)
Trujillo, Rafael (Dominican Republic: 1930-1960)

(pssssst...these murderous fascist dictators were highly favored by conservatives and American corporations found them to be very "business friendly")

Greenhat
LCDR

Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405

Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:58 am Post subject:

sparky wrote:

Quote:

enablers of dictators, fascists, and mass murder through their moral weakness and words and acts of appeasement.

You really ought to research your list better, Sparky. Funny thing is that not one of those names (not even Saddam) matches the death toll of the Vietnamese and their proxies after 1975. Heck, all together they might not manage it. And that is without mentioning Fidel Castro, Che Guevera, Daniel Ortega, Joseph Stalin (FDR's "Uncle Joe") and Chairman Mao. Yep, the left has a great record in regards to supporting peace-loving pacifists.... LMAO
_________________
De Oppresso Liber

sparky
Former Member

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546

Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject:

Sheesh! Where do I start?

Quote:

Funny thing is that not one of those names (not even Saddam) matches the death toll of the Vietnamese and their proxies after 1975.

Wrong. First of all, Pol Pot wasn't a Vietnamese proxy, if that's what you're getting at. They *overthrew* the Khmer Rouge and frankly, the world was relieved. The death toll from US-backed fascist clients runs in the many millions, you just haven't heard about them. The rest of the world knows about Indonesia's slaughter as much as the US knows about Pol Pot's.

As for the numbers of dead within Vietnam after 1975, I have absolutely no doubts that you cannot provide a credible source for any figure you provide. When groupthink reigns, the biggest numbers are the most impressive, not the most accurate. Besides, if Vietnam became one big totalitarian gulag after 1975, how can anyone know what was happening?

Quote:

Heck, all together they might not manage it. And that is without mentioning Fidel Castro, Che Guevera, Daniel Ortega, Joseph Stalin (FDR's "Uncle Joe") and Chairman Mao. Yep, the left has a great record in regards to supporting peace-loving pacifists.... LMAO

Actually, "Uncle Joe" was the term used by virtually everyone who didn't outright support Hitler (isolationist rightwingers). According to The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, the isolationist right -- including the GOP and The America First Committee -- received considerable funding from the Nazis in the late thirties to keep the US out of Europe.

Personally, I oppose the tendency on the part of our government to support dictators, including Stalin, for some geopolitical strategy. So I don't defend this form of propaganda, including affectionate nicknames. And I take offense at your efforts to link me (or the left in the US) with those other dictators.

Strange game you play: "Deaths from your side are more than mine so nyeah, nyeah! My side only killed a few million but your side killed more millions!"

Unlike you, however, I don't defend those deaths and none of those dictators are on "my side." My side is always democratic. I don't defend anyone whose power isn't derived from the ballot box.

I'm just too fond of freedom. I guess I'm what Bush calls a "freedom-loving person." For that reason, I can't support my government having funded, propped up, trained, given intelligence and munitions and arms to, any of the following:

Arévalo, Marco (Guatemala: 1985-1991)
Bakr, Ahmad (Iraq: 1968-1979)
Banzer Suarez, Hugo (Bolivia: 1971-1978)
Barre, Siad (Somalia: 1979-1991)
Batista, Fulgencio (Cuba: 1940-44/1952-1959)
Betancourt Bello, Rumulo (Venezuela: 1959-1964)
Bokassa, Jean-Bedel (Central African Republic: 1966-1976)
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal (Brunei: 1984-2002)
Botha, P.W. (South Africa: 1978-1989)
Branco, Humberto (Brazil: 1964-1966)
Carmona, Pedro (Venezuela: 2002)
Cedras, Raoul (Haiti: 1991)
Christiani, Alfredo (El Salvador: 1989-1994)
Chun Doo Hwan (S. Korea: 1980-1988)
Cordova, Roberto (Honduras: 1981-1985)
Diem, Ngo Dinh (S. Vietnam: 1955-1963)
Duvalier, Francois (Haiti: 1957-1971)
Duvalier, Jean Claude (Haiti: 1971-1986)
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz (Saudi Arabia: 1969-2002)
Feisal, King (Iraq: 1939-1958)
Fujimori, Alberto (Peru: 1990-2002)
Hussein, Saddam (Iraq: 1979-1990)
Marcos, Ferdinand (Philippines: 1965-1986)
Martinez, Maximiliano (El Salvador: 1931-1944)
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire: 1965-1997)
Moi, Daniel (Kenya: 1978-2002)
Montt, Efrain (Guatemala: 1982-1983)
Noriega, Manuel (Panama: 1983-1989)
Odria, Manuel (Peru: 1948-1956)
Pahlevi, Rezi the Shah (Iran: 1953-1979)
Perez Jimenez, Marcos (Venezuela: 1952-5
Pinilla, Gustavo (Colombia: 1953-1957)
Pinochet, Augusto (Chile: 1973-1990)
Seaga, Edward (Jamaica: 1980-1989)
Somoza Sr., Anastasio (Nicaragua: 1936-1956)
Somoza Jr., Anastasio (Nicaragua: 1963-1979)
Stroessner, Alfredo (Paraguay: 1954-1989)
Suharto, General (Indonesia: 1966-1999)
Trujillo, Rafael (Dominican Republic: 1930-1960)

Nobody hates America because we're so free. That's just an effort to avoid saying the obvious, or at least what's obvious to those who read international newspapers.

Greenhat
LCDR

Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405

Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject:

sparky wrote:

As for the numbers of dead within Vietnam after 1975, I have absolutely no doubts that you cannot provide a credible source for any figure you provide. When groupthink reigns, the biggest numbers are the most impressive, not the most accurate. Besides, if Vietnam became one big totalitarian gulag after 1975, how can anyone know what was happening?

Quote:

Well, let's see. The Vietnamese themselves record over 3 million deaths in Vietnam in reeducation camps and through trials. You see, life isn't especially important to most Asians, not the way it is to Westerners. They don't see any reason for it to be a big deal. So, they don't hide the numbers. Of course, that 3 million does not include any who died fleeing the country, nor does it include the deaths of the Dega people while Vietnam actively engaged in attempted genocide. Nor does it include the deaths in Laos (the Vietnamese proxies).

As for tying the left with Stalin? Considering that FDR had an employee of Stalin as an advisor, it is kind of hard not to tie the left to Stalin, don't you think?

And is it the right that has raised Che Guevera up to semi-diety level? Or the right that quotes Lenin? Which side of the political spectrum did Jane Fonda represent in her red dress, with Mao's little red book?

And your hero, John Kerry, put Daniel Ortega up at his house. Visited him. What are we supposed to think?

Nobody hates America because we're free? Many do envy us, and envy has a way of turning into hate... not to mention that some choose to judge us by their standards, standards which were set in stone in the 12th century. I suggest you get a prayer mat and figure out where Mecca is from your home so you can practice bowing to it.
_________________
De Oppresso Liber

LewWaters
Admin

Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State

Posted: Mon May 31, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject:

For some mostly European thoughts on Anti-Americanism, here are a few articles to look at, when any have time; http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=5223&catcode=11 http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/004213.html http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&cid=ferguson&sid=aAGurIsiSYgA http://www.balancedpolitics.org/sole_superpower.htm http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/06/273429.html

sparky
Former Member

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:49 am Post subject:

Quote:

The Vietnamese themselves record over 3 million deaths in Vietnam in reeducation camps and through trials.

Hmmmm, I've never heard that. The Vietnamese government does attribute the deaths of 3 million Vietnamese to the failed US conquest. You're telling me that they're admitting that they killed 3 million in reeducation and through trials?

You're truly schizoid.

And you lack links and evidence.

Just like your bogus book of bogus quotes that just won't show up. Aren't you just a little bit embarassed in saying you own a book that doesn't exist?

Just like it's the left that elevates Chi Guevara and quotes Lenin, it's the right that elevates and quotes Hitler.

But I don't defend dictators, especially those with mass graves. I guess that's because I'm rather moderate. Can you say the same? Let's post that list again. Do you defend these dictators? Most of them are mass murderers, you know and your tax dollars propped them up:

Arévalo, Marco (Guatemala: 1985-1991)
Bakr, Ahmad (Iraq: 1968-1979)
Banzer Suarez, Hugo (Bolivia: 1971-1978)
Barre, Siad (Somalia: 1979-1991)
Batista, Fulgencio (Cuba: 1940-44/1952-1959)
Betancourt Bello, Rumulo (Venezuela: 1959-1964)
Bokassa, Jean-Bedel (Central African Republic: 1966-1976)
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal (Brunei: 1984-2002)
Botha, P.W. (South Africa: 1978-1989)
Branco, Humberto (Brazil: 1964-1966)
Carmona, Pedro (Venezuela: 2002)
Cedras, Raoul (Haiti: 1991)
Christiani, Alfredo (El Salvador: 1989-1994)
Chun Doo Hwan (S. Korea: 1980-1988)
Cordova, Roberto (Honduras: 1981-1985)
Diem, Ngo Dinh (S. Vietnam: 1955-1963)
Duvalier, Francois (Haiti: 1957-1971)
Duvalier, Jean Claude (Haiti: 1971-1986)
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz (Saudi Arabia: 1969-2002)
Feisal, King (Iraq: 1939-1958)
Fujimori, Alberto (Peru: 1990-2002)
Hussein, Saddam (Iraq: 1979-1990)
Marcos, Ferdinand (Philippines: 1965-1986)
Martinez, Maximiliano (El Salvador: 1931-1944)
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire: 1965-1997)
Moi, Daniel (Kenya: 1978-2002)
Montt, Efrain (Guatemala: 1982-1983)
Noriega, Manuel (Panama: 1983-1989)
Odria, Manuel (Peru: 1948-1956)
Pahlevi, Rezi the Shah (Iran: 1953-1979)
Perez Jimenez, Marcos (Venezuela: 1952-5
Pinilla, Gustavo (Colombia: 1953-1957)
Pinochet, Augusto (Chile: 1973-1990)
Seaga, Edward (Jamaica: 1980-1989)
Somoza Sr., Anastasio (Nicaragua: 1936-1956)
Somoza Jr., Anastasio (Nicaragua: 1963-1979)
Stroessner, Alfredo (Paraguay: 1954-1989)
Suharto, General (Indonesia: 1966-1999)
Trujillo, Rafael (Dominican Republic: 1930-1960)

The next time you think we're hated because we're so free, remember that there are other countries that are freer and the terrorists have left them completely alone.

Missing from the above list is an important junta, the one in Algeria that the US supported with aid, arms, trade and intelligence. They lost an election (1992) by a landslide to Islamic fundamentalists and refused to surrender power. They banned the Islamic party that won and cracked down very harshly.

That was one of many lessons in US-promoted freedom and democracy in the mideast. Think of this the next time someone tells you the US is hated because we're so free.

Last edited by sparky on Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total

LewWaters
Admin

Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:58 am Post subject:

Quote:

Hmmmm, I've never heard that. The Vietnamese government does attribute the deaths of 3 million Vietnamese to the failed US conquest.

Your very own words suit this the best

Quote:

You're truly schizoid.

sparky
Former Member

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:04 am Post subject:

Oh, that's right...I forgot! We were there to promote freedom and democracy! And Napoleon was promoting Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite.

LewWaters
Admin

Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:15 am Post subject:

Okay sparky, since now you want us to believe our purpose was the conquest of Vietnam, when and where was the invasion of North Vietnam? Seems to me, that was Uncle Ho's ambition, not ours.

sparky
Former Member

Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:57 am Post subject:

You're right. Conquest was too harsh a word. We'd have made sure they had free and fair elections and we would have completely let them run their own affairs. Just like Diem.

Display posts from previous:

	SwiftVets.com Forum Index -> Swift Vets and POWs for Truth	All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum