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Ijon Tichy · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: Form 180: Has Bush signed one?

I've seen it claimed that President Bush has signed a form 180. Does anybody know this to be the case?

I know that it's slightly off-topic for this forum, but it seems somewhat relevant to the demand that Kerry sign the form.
It would be powerful pressure on Kerry, to my mind, if it were publicized (truthfully) that Bush has signed the form.

air_vet · PO2 Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 374

I guess you don't watch much TV or read much - other than prerhaps the talking points on an un-named website.

The answer appears to be "yes" - of couse it was the Kery campaign and the MSM that made all the fuss about the Presidents records.

The President is running on today - candidate JK is running on the past - 'cause HIS present record in the Senate is pretty bad. The trouble is, JK's past is pretty bad also!

Aren't you glad you asked?

RichardP · Seaman Recruit Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 21

President Bush has released ALL of his military records, so yes, he has signed the 180.

Kerry on the other hand will not, and the media, being the Kerry supporters that they are, are not making the HUGE fuss that they did over Bush's records.

The media is flushing any credibility it had down the crapper, and the American people are starting to finally wake up to the fact that we have a press that is biased beyond belief.

Yes, President Bush signing his 180 SHOULD put pressure on Kerry to sign his and release his records, but it's NOT gonna happen, and the media is gonna spin until we are all so dizzy that we don't care whether he does or not.

Ijon Tichy · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:53 am Post subject:

Ijon Tichy · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:59 am Post subject:

silenthunter · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:19 pm Post subject:

Bush had no need to file a 180, though it is abundantly evident that he did.

You see, it was Kerry who painted himself as a war hero. Lie. When he did that it became very reasonable for his Ramboesque 3+ month tour to be taken apart and inspected stitch by stitch.

It has been, and it will be a huge part of his downfall. Assuming the "stupid is what stupid does" factor does not come into play and he doesn't get elected, he's done even as a Senator. Win-win.

But the fight is still very real. An added bonus to this protracted battle is that the MSM will be damaged as well, and it will be up to us as individuals to maintain that truth before the America. The MSM sure as heck isn't gonna do it.
_________________
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Navy '67-'71
Staff, Rear Admiral James D. Ramage,
COMCARDIV7, '70-'71
USS Oriskany, CVA34, '69-'71

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

swiftjustice · Former Member Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 4

(Quota for Kerry Talking Points Exceeded - Admin)

Ijon Tichy · Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:13 am Post subject:

(Removed quoted troll post - Admin)

Whether or not Bush has signed the form, I am looking for an authoritative source that confirms the report one way or another.

Thanks for the POV, however.

Herb · Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:27 am Post subject:

Actually Scott McClellan addressed this saying that although he was not sure specificaly about SF 180 (he would check) that the President had either signed it or just given a Presidential order to release his records.

Kerry doesn't really have the latter option and no one was asking the President for the specific form, just the records.
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Herb

Ijon Tichy · Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Herb!
That's a very good point, on the face of it.
Smile

lrb111 · Captain Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 508

DerbyRed · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject:

It’s time to put the “Form-180”-myth to rest.

A quick intro here -- I was out of the net since before the whole SwiftBoat issue surfaced . . . I had my wife order me up a copy to be on hand when I came back. I read it, poured over some of the MSM-yak on the subject; poured over what I consider some of the best blogging ever done on any subject; and, of course, tried hard to keep up with all the threads on the various SwiftBoat forums. I only bring that up because, as hard as I have tried to play catch-up, I’m sure I’m going to wind up bringing up matters that y'all have already pretty much dealt with and considered closed out. So I ask that y’all bear with me. -- BREAK --

Re: Executing a Standard Form 180 (SF 180) [http://www.archives.gov/research_room/obtain_copies/standard_form_180.pdf]

I think we may be putting too much stock in this FS 180 deal . . . Jfk doesn’t have to execute a SF 180 . . . he ALREADY has!!!! . . . that’s exactly how he knows that he better keep all the material that he hasn’t already made available away from public scrutiny (lockbox vs “pandora’s box”). I've done the same thing whenever they do a bring-up investigation on my security clearance to make sure I know what they know, ya know???

Y’all can see that the form only allows the record repository(s) to provide specified records to one specific “requester” -- it does NOT automatically put personnel/health records into the public domain -- his records would not be releasable through a normal FOIA request [kinda like we can’t get a look at te-RAY-sa’s tax returns unless she makes them available herself -- i.e. posting them on a website].

Whether Dubya actually executed a SF 180 or simply ordered them up from OSD (a better bet) is kinda mute right now . . . those files were delivered to the WH for review. The WH then made copies of only that material pertinent to the matter at hand -- the record of his completion of ANG duty commitment -- and nothing else -- and a limited/controlled dissemination made. Jfk would have the same control over his records.

Also, this is a lot like the issue with Doug Brinkley having “exclusivity” over jfk’s diary and other personal documents. jfk’s campaign has steadfastly claimed on the issue of releasing that material its hands are tied because of that arrangement. Brinkley said in a recent interview [http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40195] that he didn’t care anything about jfk releasing any of the material he used to create the “Tour of Duty” fictional work -- just so long as his book received “credit.” Haven’t heard a response to that one from the jfk camp.

So the long-and-short of it is -- the SF 180 doesn't appear to be the panacea it’s cracked up to be, we just have to keep digging analyzing, and reporting . . . and wait for the kedward campaign’s dumb-masses to keep screwing up as they did with that first dump of documents that got posted on kedwards’04 website.

I apologize for the length of this posting -- we bureaucratic Feddies aren’t especially noted for our brevity!!! > > > GBA/cul/dmm
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams "

Herb · Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:27 am Post subject:

This is the reason it should be worded:

Execute FORM 180 to publicly release all of his records from archives.

Note: publicly.

And: all...from achives.

The latter is due to the Kerry half truth that they have released all of the records the Navy or that Pentagon hold. The records have been moved to archives and are NOT physically at the Navy or Pentagon.
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Herb

The bandit · Commander Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 349

lobster · Seaman Recruit Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 14

Kerry must have signed a form 180 to have his full record released to his campaign. He did that in January and the campaign said they received over 100 pages in March, as I recall. Only the Boston Globe has reported receiving access to this file, less medical records, at Kerry campaign headquarters - as far as I can tell.

The campaign then started posting some of the documents on their web page which I presume is why some of the documents say "Official Copy". I don't know if all the documents should say "Official Copy."