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Navy wife Research Director
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 353 Location: Arlington, VA & Ft. Worth, TX
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:39 am Post subject: |
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When it comes down to competing eyewitness accounts, I'd go to the bank betting that RADM Schachte is telling the truth. He is an extremely honorable man. He did not rise to the rank and position that he did by being untruthful! |
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carpro Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004 Posts: 1176 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:58 am Post subject: |
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[quote="7rrfs
Something official is needed now IMHO as far as the SwiftVet story is concerned.
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, but the absence of documentation is, in itself, proof.
ergo: No after action report. No enemy fire. End of story.
As far as the PH is concerned, that's all that matters. _________________ "If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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cjg PO3
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 254
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:00 am Post subject: |
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All of a sudden he has this memory, well where has he been in the last
three weeks while the news of Kerry's actions are being told everywhere?
I do not believe him because he came from nowhere and he has not
spoken until now and he could not have missed the facts being laid out,
another usefull fool for Kerry. _________________ Swiftvets rock! |
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igor Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 81
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:20 am Post subject: |
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carpro wrote: |
I understand what you are saying, but the absence of documentation is, in itself, proof.
ergo: No after action report. No enemy fire. End of story.
As far as the PH is concerned, that's all that matters. |
It's conclusive that there was no enemy fire. Any chance the Navy can take back the PH in the next couple of weeks. |
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Belisaurius Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 38 Location: Bronx NY
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | All of a sudden he has this memory, well where has he been in the last
three weeks while the news of Kerry's actions are being told everywhere?
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It took that long for the check to clear. _________________ "I am Johnny Kerry and I approved this message before I didn't approve this message and after I decided it was just another smear" |
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drjohn Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 550 Location: CT
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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No after action report means no action.
All parties claim 3 persons present. Does anyone have any info on Runyon? Someone wasn't there.
Thanks. |
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BMG Mike Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 19
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm willing to give the "M-16 Machine Gun" to a transcription error. "Sixteen" and "sixty" are pretty close phonetically. He's got the gun right in the rest of the story.
I also believe that you can be so blinded by the muzzle flash of your own MG that you might not be able to see muzzle flashes from return fire. I've never been on the receiving end of return fire, but I have been pretty well blinded by the muzzle flash of my own MG. Particularly if Mr. Z had the hammer down and was burning ammo as fast as possible so he could justify retiring from the action.
What I'm not willing to believe is that a cherry officer would be turned loose to command a craft in a situation in which enemy engagement was a high probability. You just don't turn out FNG officers without supervision like that.
Nor do I believe that grenade explosions relatively close aboard would be forgettable, and such must have happened for Kerry to get the wound he received.
FWIW.
Mike |
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Me#1You#10 Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Admin note:
Please be extremely judicious in discussing this topic. Suggestion of impropriety with no factual basis will be deleted and users who persist in suggesting such activity may face termination of their membership.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation in this regard.
Admin |
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7rrfs Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 99
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | 7rrfs:
Something official is needed now IMHO as far as the SwiftVet story is concerned. |
Quote: | I understand what you are saying, but the absence of documentation is, in itself, proof.
ergo: No after action report. No enemy fire. End of story.
As far as the PH is concerned, that's all that matters.
_________________ |
Yes, you know it and I know it but this message is NOT, repeat NOT, getting to the voting public. It is NOT given the attention it deserves. Nor will it until the SwiftVets can drop an OFFICIALLY documented bomb on this guy.
The position in front of the voting public right now is that the official documentation from the Navy supports Kerry's version of events. Kerry has the medals, he has the citations for same - ergo the SwiftVets have no basis for their charges. Their position is based on falsehoods and/or an agenda based on events after Kerry's service. Like it or not that is what the SwiftVets are up against here.
That you or I have the ability to reason this through to its logical conclusion is beside the point. No one in the media is givng any credence to the SwiftVets story any longer unless Kerry can be directly tied down. And NOT with ancedotal evidence. There has to be a direct line from A to B and Kerrys fingerprints has to be on it.
It irks me to no end, but thems the facts.
I hope this is clear. What you or I can piece together is of little importance. The story that the general public gets - what the mainstream media gives them - is. _________________ "I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry |
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The bandit Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004 Posts: 349
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:24 am Post subject: |
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I've covered this exact topic in a evaluation report I did. See the following link for a closer examination of Zaladonis/First PH:
Evaluating Kerry's Medals _________________
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baldeagl PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 4:10 am Post subject: |
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7rrfs, you are far too paranoid, and you don't have enough faith in the American people. Kerry's own biographer has now called the Cambodia story "false" and "a mongrel phrase". Despite the overwhelming bias of the media, this story is being told in kitchens and living rooms across the country. Children are learning about their fathers and how Kerry defamed them. Grandparents are seeing Iwo Jima mocked by the man who would be President.
The message is getting through. Calm down. Everything is going according to plan, and Kerry is sinking fast, never to see the light of day again. _________________ antimedia
USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/ |
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Navy_Navy_Navy Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Thank you baldeagl.
The mainstream media is not where people get their news anymore.
The alphabet networks' news ratings are in free-fall while Fox's rise.
Talk radio and the internet are fast becoming the primary source of news for a majority of people.
This is reflecting in the polls.
Hell, Bush and Kerry just did a 10-12 point switch in positions for the question of who was more qualified to lead the war on terror - and this was before the RNC convention even began - right after Unfit for Command hit the stores. The ads and the books are making huge waves.
It'll take more than a couple of weeks, but Kerry is sinking. _________________ ~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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The Citizen Seaman Recruit
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:01 pm Post subject: Who was on the skimmer? |
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Let's see now:
Both Rear Admiral Schachte and Kerry & Zaladonis agree there were
three men on the skimmer and that one of them was Mr. Kerry. So
either Mr. Runyon, Mr. Zaladonis or Read Admiral Schachte is at least
incorrect and at worst not telling the truth.
Has Mr. Runyon been interviewed? If so, can someone direct me to
that transcript?
As has been suggested, wouldn't the OinC of the PCF 'mother boat' that
morning, Mr. Voss, have had to know the mission and who was to
execute it? Has he been interviewed? How about his crew? I note that
Mr. Voss is not listed as a SBVT in the book 'Unfit for Command'. Does
anyone know how he can be reached? What about his crew who would
also seem to have been witnesses as to who was on board the
skimmer? And shouldn't there be some sort of written record of what
action that PCF was involved in - a 'log' of some kind? Might that not
contain information as to the personnel on the skimmer that morning?
Finally, I understand that the PCFs operated in some cases from a base
which consisted of a larger vessel such as an LST. Was that the case
on December 2, 1968 or was the 'mother boat' PCF based at Cam Ranh
Bay? If the former, wouldn't the LST, being a larger vessel, have had
to have kept an official log and might there be information available in
that document about this mission and who was actually involved? |
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7rrfs Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 99
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | 7rrfs, you are far too paranoid, and you don't have enough faith in the American people. |
The most dangerous time for a counter attack is when you first overrun a position. The SwiftVets initial barrage hurt him bad. I want no possible relief for this bum. I want no possible way for him to squirm out from under his rock - I want no possible way for the media to ignore his actions or to be able to blow them off as irrelevant.
I am hearing far too many talk about 'the fog of war' and how THAT is the reasons for the conflicting tales. That the Hap River, to name one, is just an honest disagreement/ interpretation of events. Yeah, right. Or am I wrong - that the damage reported for Kerry's boat WAS Kerry's boat?
No possible relief, no wiggle room, no backing down on any of it. The medals, the false reporting, ..... He needs to be nailed but good on all accounts. _________________ "I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry |
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rhv5862 PO2
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 379 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:45 pm Post subject: Zaladonis |
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The damage report did show the 94 boat which was Kerry's. We all know the 94 boat had no damage. If Kerry wrote the report how can he claim it was an error. Does anyone know if in fact Kerry wrote the report?
RHV |
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