SwiftVets.com

[Solo Prime]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and....I'm not a Vet but I would first like to thank all our veterans for their service to our country. And, in particular, I would like to thank the SBVT for standing up, yet again, in defense of our Nation.

Regarding the incident of March 13 1969;
As I have read the accounts of various swifties and heard the pundits in the media relay this story (and I just finished "Unfit for Command"), I have heard bits and pieces of certain accounts that have yet to be fully explored (I think) in the minds of the public.

As I understand it, there were 5 PCF's operating in a section of river that was only 70 Yards wide (that's a scant 210 feet). The PCF's themselves, although small by Navy standards, are actually quite huge by the public's standards. If I got this right, they're 50 ft long! I actually heard (in an interview) from a gunner that he sat in a gun turret that was 12 feet off the water. I did not, at first, realize just how big these boats were. Good grief, they're the size of a semi-trailer!

Now, Kerry claims that there was enemy fire (automatic weapons fire) coming from BOTH sides of the river bank and yet...there were NO bullet holes reported in any of the boats!

I don't think that the public fully understands how implausible this whole scenerio is. If you were positioned in the very center of the river (thus maximising your distance from an enemy firing from both sides of the river bank) you would only be a mere 35 yards from either bank. That's 105 feet. YOu could hit a semi-trailer with a rock from 105 feet!

How is it possible that someone firing automatic weapons at a target the size of a semi-trailer from a distance of 105 feet managed to MISS all 5 boats?

Seriously....the next time you see a semi parked somewhere walk up and pace off 35 steps, turn around and look at what you see and ask yourself that one question.

Do I have my facts wrong or...are we not illustrating this point to the public properly?

[Wing Wiper]

You have your facts right, and a demonstration/re-enactment of the Kerry mission would be devestating to Kerry. For example, I could shoot your eyes out at 35 yards with a .22 rifle pretty much every shot, the boats were in a fixed position (salvaging/towing the 3 boat, performing rescue/first aid), Kerry states there was 5000 yards of heavy automatic weapons fire, yet nobody received a bullet wound. I wasn't there, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that's possible under any conditions. No matter who tells me. Keep reading, it gets better.

[jimlarsen]

Not to nit pick, but VC snipers would likely not have been at the water's edge. So figure some extra distance for the cover on or near the banks/beach. I don't think this correction changes the image of what the VC would have done to the boats, but the distance might have been closer to 250 ft.

[dabigkahuna]

I brought up this very thing in another forum unrelated to this website - couldn't get any response from the Kerry supporters!

Even if the snipers were further back, the distance is really small - and weren't there supposed to be more than just sniper fire? I thought automatic weapons were also supposedly used.

On the other side, let's not forget how Kerry's side tries to weasel out - by referring to a few bullet holes in one of the boats. One side says they were from the previous day while Kerry's side would say they were from this engagement. Thus the public doesn't really know.

But when you start looking at how close the boats would be to any enemy, it doesn't really matter since how would you only end up with a few bullet holes considering how much enemy fire Kerry claims? Those boats should be riddled.
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Bob

[BuffaloJack]

If this engagement was anything like the ones I saw, it usually involved one or two VC shooting perhaps one rocket round and 10 or 15 small arms rounds, the entire thing lasting 3 to 5 seconds, then running like stink before the real show begins. Our guys would typically have returned fire with hundreds and sometimes thousands of rounds and basically killed anything that moved in the vicinity.
Most of the VC were ill trained young men and women given a task to do and not much instruction on how to do it. It is conveivable that they hit nothing. You gotta realize that they were nervous and scared and knew what wrath they would being upon themselves.

If this engagement were like the Kerry description, all they guys would have gotten medals, not just Kerry.

We will stop Kerry. We have truth on our side.

[Ladder Yankee 33]

Let's bring this into a little more clarity. As I recall the reports there were 5 PCF's coming up river and they encountered a fishing weir across the river. PCF 3 went to port (left side) of the river, PCF 94 went to starboard (right side) of the river. Assume that there was an opening of 25 feet on either side of the river to allow sampans to transit the river, then each PCF would have been very near the riverbank when the mine exploded under PCF 3. Kerry's PCF 94 was to have made a hard highspeed turn to starboard (right side) and this would have grounded his PCF, thereby exposing he and his crew to extreme danger from the withering rocket and automatic fire such that Kerry claimed. I can assure you the VC could have hit a PCF at that range. Yet there were no hits from rocket or AK47 to Kerry's 94 boat. Yet his boat ended up 5,000 yards up river away from the four remaining PFS that were still under rocket and automatic weapons fire. Not one PCF nor crew memebers were hit. AMAZING!
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"Win the Delta Come Hell or High Water!"
RivDiv11, RAS111, T-111-9, RM3 11/68-11/69

[skipper]

Are there any damage reports from any of the 4 PCF's that reveals there were no bullet holes on any of the boats on the day of Rassmann's rescue?

[FF1047]

The Kerry site has the damage report from Kerry's boat the 94 ... lists things like windows blown out (actually from day before but I digress) curled screws, etc. BUT not ONE bullet hole ...
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JJC
USNA class of 1980

[FF1047]

I just ask them to think for themselves ... they always say, "I am thinking for myself ...".

So I ask, How wide was that canal ? (to see if they have read anything about the incident) If they don't know I tell them its 75 yards wide.

Then I say "take five 50 foot long 10+ foot high boats in that canal and imagine them swarming around the boat that was damaged by the mine, for over an hour."

Now ask them "if there was Automatic Weapons fire would you expect to find alot of bullet holes and maybe even some wounds inflicted ?"

They hesitantly say , "well yes it would make sense". I then ask them to go research the pro-Kerry sites for any evidence that there were bullet holes or wounds ...

Don't tell them no holes or wounds, let them find it out for themselves ...

Open the door to the truth and ask them to walk thru ...

We can't change their minds by repeating the Truth ... they aren't listening ... but we can chart a course to the Truth for them ... lead them to the point where there is a yes or no answer ... they need to find the truth on their own ...
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JJC
USNA class of 1980

[hiyall]

If this engagement were like the Kerry description, all they guys would have gotten medals, not just Kerry.

...

And the medals would have probably been awarded posthumously.
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I'm a Texan, and no one has ever accused me of speaking English.

[jrsdad]

[ASPB]

The spider holes were next to never more than 20-30 yards from the water line.
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB

[Solo Prime]

Thank you, everyone, for your input.

The overall concensus seems to be that the maximum range from which an enemy might be firing during this particular incident is about 70 yards. 30 to 35 yards to the center of the river and another 30 to 35 yards back into the tree line (in a spider hole). Realistically, I suspect that the overall distance would be somewhat less.

So...here's what you do. You invite some liberal journalist such as Chris Mathews and his camera crew to a range. Drag out a plywood sillouette of a SwiftBoat placed at 70 yards. Give him an AK 47 and let him take a quick 3 second burst at the target and see what happens.

Then ask him how John Kerry traversed "5000 yards" of "withering" automatic weapons fire in order to save Rassmon without getting a single bullet hole in his boat! Then ask him to imagine FIVE swift boats in the river and NONE of them got a single bullet hole!

[jrsdad]

[lobster]

There is also Lambert's account which was published after the Washington Post article. Lambert was on his second tour on swift boats and said he trained officers - so he seems a reliable source. I've put his account together with Rassmann's initial account when he first met Kerry back in Iowa:

Most important Lambert wrote that all the boats were going full speed ahead after PCF-3 hit the mine, including PCF-3. That is a very important detail because according to Lambert, Thurlow had time to negotiate close to PCF-3, put Lambert in command of PCF-51, get on board PCF-3 and start to check the wounded. If PCF-3 was going full speed ahead it could have traveled hundreds of yards down the river before hitting a sand bar and knocking Thurlow into the river.

Rassmann said he was thrown into the river at about the time PCF-94 went over to assist PCF-3. The Navy record says both PCF-94 and PCF-51 went to the aid of PCF-3, but we don't know whether PCF-3 had hit the sand bar by then. Rassmann said he dove deep to avoid the propellers as the boats came to the aid of PCF-3 which was probably after PCF-3 hit the sand bar.

Rassmann said all the boats left together until they were out of sight around a bend in the river - perhaps to get out of range of the small arms or rocket fire. Then PCF-94 noticed Rassmann was missing and PCF-94 and PCF-51 came back to get Rassmann. The small arms fire by that time could have been closer - Rassmann said he was getting shot at and clearly thought he was done for.

Were Thurlow and Kerry under fire, and from where?
Lambert wrote in his account that "Anytime you are blown out of the water like that, they always follow that up with small arms fire." If so the small arms fire would probably have been located near the mine blast. However Lambert said the boats went through at full speed and were probably hundreds of yards away assisting PCF-3, which was on a sand bar.

The small arms fire might not have been effective at that distance, but close enough for a rocket to hit Kerry's boat. Rassmann was in the water and mostly under-water so he might not have determine exactly how far away the small arms fire was located.

The boats left and Rassmann was swimming under-water for so long he said he was exhausted. Rassmann said when Kerry's and Thurlow's boat came to rescue him, Rassmann figured he was gone. That could indicate that by the time the small arms fire had gotten close enough to be effective.

It would be very helpful to have some other comments as to whether PCF-3 was running at full speed after it was hit by the mine, as Lambert claims.