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NavyChief Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 627 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:48 pm Post subject: Revised Letter to Mr Dobbs |
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Mr. Dobbs,
Here is the revised version of my letter to you previously. I have also included "my take" on the Cambodia Story as mentioned in the previous letter. I have taken the liberty to just highlight the additional information from the revision in hopes you don't have to read so much:
The initials in the TOR line of each of the messages are Watch Officers at the communications center who received the messages. The initials KJW are not Kerry's initials as previously thought. They belong to one of four Watch Officers who stood 12 hours watches on a rotating basis. The following initials are those in question: KJW, RAP, WAS, and PDJ. When the messages were received at the communications center, the operator and Watch Officer would initial the message acknowledging receipt. Thus the TOR line is broken out as follows: TOR 151420Z/HB/KJW - Time of Receipt, Day of Month and Zulu Time / operator's initials / Watch Officer's initials.
Although this disproves the theory that the initials were proof that Kerry had written the reports, it does not mean Kerry hadn't drafted After-Action reports. According to Kerry's own testimony in front of Congress in 1971 he was asked and responded:
Senator Symington asked Mr. Kerry, "Mr. Kerry, from your experience in Vietnam, do you think it is possible for the President or Congress to get accurate and undistorted information through official military channels?
Mr Kerry: "I had direct experience with that. Senator, I had direct experience with that and I can recall often sending in the spot reports which we made after each mission, and including the GDA, gunfire damage assessments, in which we would say, maybe 15 sampans sunk or whatever it was. And I often read about my own missions in the Stars and Stripes and the very mission we had been on had been doubled in figures and tripled in figures".
The only way to know for sure which reports Kerry did write is to look at the report itself and see who the Task Element Commander was for the mission. CTE 194.5.4.4/1 or CTE 194.5.4.5/2. With this information we have to look at who was the Task Element Commander. This would be the person who wrote the report and handed it off to the communications center to be released as part of the "Official Navy Record." Kerry was the secondary Task Element Commander for the mission: 13 FEB 69 (13200Z FEB 69). Note that Kerry's boat was on a solo mission for two hours. He had completed two missions earlier in the day. The Task Element Commander was PCF-50 CTE 194.5.4.5/1. Since Kerry was the only boat to complete this third mission, he was CTE 194.5.4.5/2. This is his report.
Kerry was the Task Element Commander for mission: 28 FEB 69 (281130Z FEB 69). **This After-Action report is not posted on Kerry's website. The only mention of the action that day, which Kerry received his Silver Star, is noted in Vice Admiral Zumwalt's BRAVO ZULU message.** This report is extremely important to view!!! Where is this report? The Coastal Division 11 History Report states the OTC ordered the unit to the beach. We know from Kerry's award citation that he was the OTC or Task Element Commander for that mission. If we see the report, it will state: MARKET TIME SPOT REPORT 28/1/CTE 194.5.4.4/1. Meaning the Task Element Commander is writing the report.
According to Kerry's book, "Tour of Duty" Kerry was the Task Element Commander for mission: 13 MAR 69 (131620Z MAR 69). Thus you will see MARKET TIME SPOT REPORT 13/1/TE 194.5.4.4/1 - Kerry wrote this report as well.
There are other missions, which Kerry wrote as well but it cannot be proven unless we have the record of who was the Task Element Commander for each mission.
One of the largest misconceptions that the media has printed in all this controversy is that the awards, Command History Report, Task Force 115 Weekly Report, and Casualty reports are supportive documents to Kerry's version of events. This is simply not the case. Not a single one of the above reports mentioned came before the After-Action reports. The After-Action reports are written by the Swift Boat, Task Element Commander first. The next document is taken from the After-Action report and the wounded person to create the Casualty reports. Next comes the Task Force 115 Weekly Report, followed by the Command History Report. Awards are taken from the After-Action report and an eye witness to the accounts. You can see that the After-Action reports are the genesis to what happens later and is recorded as "Official Navy" documentation. The media consistently displays ignorance of this fact. If I write a false After-Action report - I can influence all the other documentation easily. Especially, if my fellow officers don't know what I've written in my report. I can easily get one of my crew to vouch for me --that was done all the time, or convinced them to see it my way.
As you can see in the revised letter, LTjg Kerry was onboard the USCGC SPENCER with the other wounded crewmen when he sent the After-Action report. All of the other Swift Boats returned to An Thoi base. Not even LCDR Elliot (Kerry's boss) would have had time to question Kerry before he sent the report. The SPENCER was in the water near the SONG BAY HAP and Elliot was at his base in An Thoi.
Another problem with the 13 Mar 69 report, written by Kerry, is that he said the firing from both banks continued for about 5000 meters (3.1 miles). This would have placed Kerry's boat at the mouth of the SONG BAY HAP, almost completely out of the river. Kerry was the Task Element Commander. He had a responsibility to coordinate all the action for the five Swift Boats but the boats were back with PCF-3 assisting the wounded and trying to save the boat from sinking. Kerry's own report proves he was derelict in his duties as the Officer in Charge. Why didn't his boss, Elliot catch this? Kerry sent the message via the SPENCER and Elliot had not suspected that Kerry had fled the scene. However, several of Kerry's fellow Officers knew that was the case. As pointed out by Tom Wright, he and several other Swift Boat commanders went to Kerry several days later and told him about the 3 Purple Hearts and to leave Vietnam. They didn't want him around because he couldn't be depended upon. Kerry was a danger to the other boats and their crews.
Another problem with the 13 Mar 69 incident is that 1LT James Rassmann was awarded a Purple Heart for action that day. Huh? What action? When did Rassmann get hurt under fire? That wasn't mentioned anywhere. At the DNC or in subsequent stories or Kerry's After-Action Report. However, the Coastal Division 11 Command History Report (written at the beginning of the following month - items taken from After-Action reports and other reports), states 8 friendlies were Wounded-in-Action on 13 March. Kerry's report states 7 people. Where did 8 come from? I only counted 7. Unless Rassmann was included in the Command History report, which if a message went out - then he was. Well, guess what? A message did go out and Rassmann was counted as the number 8 person to be wounded. Message: From Department of the Army, Headquarters 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne), 1st Special Forces, APO San Francisco 96240, dated 21 March 1969. AWARDED PURPLE HEART: Reason: For wounds received in connection with military operations against a hostile force. RASSMAN, JAMES A. FIRST LIEUTENANT, INFANTRY, UNITED STATES ARMY, COMPANY D. Date action: 13 March 1969.
Mr. Dobbs, I have to ask you: Why hasn't the Kerry Campaign or James Rassmann mentioned that Rassmann was awarded a Purple Heart for action on that day? Did he get a Purple Heart for catching shrapnel/rice like Kerry earlier in the day? Did he get a Purple Heart for falling into the water off Kerry's boat? Did he get shot while in the water? Did he catch shrapnel from the "disputed" secondary mine that blew him off Kerry's boat? This was an important piece of the puzzle that seems to have eluded your story. I strongly suggest you investigate this as the American People were subjected to Kerry and Rassman's story of heroism that day.
Was Rassman really wounded in hostile action or was this another case of a Purple Heart awarded to get to the magical 3 and you're out of Vietnam? Rassmann stated that he submitted Kerry for a Silver Star that day. But the record clearly shows that Del Sandusky was the eye witness on the Bronze Star recommendation. Did Kerry falsify Rassman's record as a payback to his own Purple Heart? I really think you should be investigating this because this has quid pro quo written all over it.
- instigator _________________ Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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Me#1You#10 Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Good show Chief...I've been outta the loop all day. How has Dobb's reportage been of late? |
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NavyChief Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 627 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Dobbs' reporting is the same as always. I'm starting to feel sorry for the guy. I think he is slightly retarded
He is extremely slow but I thought I owed him a response to my first letter. Of course, I'm in trouble now because I'm suppose to be working with another reporter on another story - something about exclusivity, whatever
I'm just trying to get the word out and not let the "slippery eel" get away with his hoax on the American public.
- instigator _________________ Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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Jack Mclaughlin PO3
Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 280
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Chief, You deserve some kind of award for all your very comprehensive investigative work and when you post I pay attention. You have much more confidence in Mr. Dobbs and The Washington Post than I do even though so far he seems willing to accept information if its seems credible. Since Kerry or Douglas Brinkley seems unwilling to do a sit down interview with him he admits he probably will not be able to bring this to a meaningful conclusion. I hope you are also working with Major Garrett of Fox News. |
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NavyChief Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 627 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Jack Mclaughlin wrote: | Chief, You deserve some kind of award for all your very comprehensive investigative work and when you post I pay attention. You have much more confidence in Mr. Dobbs and The Washington Post than I do even though so far he seems willing to accept information if its seems credible. Since Kerry or Douglas Brinkley seems unwilling to do a sit down interview with him he admits he probably will not be able to bring this to a meaningful conclusion. I hope you are also working with Major Garrett of Fox News. |
Thank you, Jack.
It started out a bit rough, but a lot of you guys have taught me so much in this. I try to give everyone a fair shot unless they show me differently. I figue that since Mr Dobbs' articles are being used by the Kerry camp so much, if we can get him to see truth in this - he will swing against Kerry. We'll see...I'm not working with him anymore since another reporter (doing great work) wants exclusivity on further analysis. I've seen Major Garrett's work - I think he really is trying to dig into all this. I enjoy his reporting.
- instigator _________________ Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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noc PO1
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 492 Location: Dublin, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Great job Instigator
I have been following this with great interest. I think that Dobbs in the end may be one of the first MSM to report the facts.
I did think it was funny that he described Kerry's "craft is rocked by an unidentified explosion". Kerry claimed it to be a mine and displayed the damage report from the PCF-3 as being his on the PCF-94.
If the PCF-94 was so damaged how did it manage to go all that way down river and turn around and come back. You already answered this, but I thought it was an interesting conflict in the illustration from the Wash PO. |
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NavyChief Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 627 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:03 am Post subject: |
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noc wrote: | Great job Instigator
I have been following this with great interest. I think that Dobbs in the end may be one of the first MSM to report the facts.
I did think it was funny that he described Kerry's "craft is rocked by an unidentified explosion". Kerry claimed it to be a mine and displayed the damage report from the PCF-3 as being his on the PCF-94.
If the PCF-94 was so damaged how did it manage to go all that way down river and turn around and come back. You already answered this, but I thought it was an interesting conflict in the illustration from the Wash PO. |
I caught that one too about the unidentified explosion. I'm sure he read the SPOT report and didn't see a definate source, but then again Sandusky has been saying lately that the explosion was probably a rocket. However, he stated in his eye witness account back in 69 that a mine exploded close aboard. I don't know if Dobbs is trying to straddle the fence on this or not.
- instigator _________________ Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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Me#1You#10 Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004 Posts: 6503
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: |
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noc wrote: | Kerry claimed it to be a mine and displayed the damage report from the PCF-3 as being his on the PCF-94.
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Let's be careful here. While I have seen this assertion, AFAIK, this is simply an allegation unsupported by documentation. Did I miss something? |
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NavyChief Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 627 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Me#1You#10 wrote: | noc wrote: | Kerry claimed it to be a mine and displayed the damage report from the PCF-3 as being his on the PCF-94.
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Let's be careful here. While I have seen this assertion, AFAIK, this is simply an allegation unsupported by documentation. Did I miss something? |
Correct - Me#1You#10. We need to get rid of the misconception that the damage report on Kerry's website is for PCF-3. This report IS really the damage for PCF-94. The damage report for PCF-3 is on page one of this message which was not posted on the website.
I was guilty of this error previously but it was brought to the attention on the forum that this report is real. Nothing funny going on about this one. In fact, this is probably one of the few reports that was written by someone besides Kerry. PCF-94 pulled into An Thoi (more correctly ARL-21, tied to USS KRISHNA at An Thoi - Kerry's homebase.) after the mine incident at approximately 1800 local on 13 March. This was the noted end time of the mission (when boats returned to base). Kerry was not aboard at this time, he was on the SPENCER writing the SPOT REPORT for the 13 MAR 69 action. We know this because PCF-43 had taken Kerry to the USCGC SPENCER as part of the wounded in action. It took approximately 2 - 2 1/2 hours to go from An Thoi to get to Bay Hap River. I assume USCGC SPENCER was closer than 2 hours away from the injuried people and units, otherwise why take them to her? We know the SPOT REPORT was sent at 2320 local on 13 Mar and that all the wounded, except Kerry, had been looked at by the Medical Officer on SPENCER. Note the SPOT REPORT states which members were medivaced from SPENCER and that the Medical Officer on SPENCER had looked at them or treated them. This means the SPOT REPORT couldn't have been written in full until the doctor had looked at the men and called for medivac. This process would have taken up to about two hours (guessing here - degree of medical care, number of doctors onboard SPENCER, and how many aircraft was needed to medivac the wounded is unknown to me). The USS WASHTENAW COUNTY LST-1166 where Rassmann and others (A404 DET) were picked up that morning must have been fairly close to the BAY HAP because it only took PCF-94 and PCF-51 about a half hour to pick them up and head up BAY HAP River. One of the boats, (poss LCVP called from WASHTENAW COUNTY) returned the A404 DET to her. RF/PF troops stayed in CAI NUOC and UDT 12 DET returned to An Thoi with other boats.
So to recap:
13 MAR 69 **times in ( ) are approximate
***********
1530 = mine explodes under PCF-3
1530 - (1700) = towing operation
1600 - (1800) = A404 DET returned to USS WASHTENAW COUNTY
1600 - (1700) = PCF-43 delivers wounded to USCGC SPENCER.
(1800) = PCFs return to APL-21/USS KRISHNA/An Thoi
(1700) - 2230 = All wounded, EXCEPT KERRY, treated by medical on SPENCER and 5 prep'd for medivac (includes CO NUNG soldier, KIA)
2320 = SPOT REPORT message sent from SPENCER
13 MAR (1900) - 14 MAR (2000) = PCF-94 pulled out of water by USS KRISHNA and placed on barge. Repair personnel look at boat and assess damage. Estimated Time for Repair (ETR) is 18 MAR 1900 local. PCF-94 is assessed as not capable of executing Market Time Patrol due to needed repairs. **majority of damage looks like from previous firefight. No mine damage noted; no bullet holes noted**
13 MAR (1700) - 14 MAR (1530) Kerry is treated by medical but his Casualty Report is not sent until the following day. Kerry informs medical officer that he received shrapnel from a mine when it exploded close aboard his boat. **interestingly, this Casualty Report was sent on the USCGC WACHUSETTS circuit, not the USCGC SPENCER where Kerry was suppose to have received medical treatment.
**Unknown when Kerry returned to An Thoi
**Rassmann receives a Purple Heart for supposed wounds incurred on 13 MAR 69 while in combat against a hostile force. Date of Rassman's award is 21 March 1969. Del Sandusky is eyewitness for Kerry's Bronze Star recommendation, dated 23 Mar 69. Within a week, Kerry leaves Vietnam.
- instigator _________________ Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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RiflemanDD730 Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 96
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I also threw in my two cents at Mr Dobbs as follows.
To:"Michael Dobbs" <dobbsm@washpost.com>
Mr Dobbs,
I read your article with great interest. Two items seem to need particular follow up.
1) The SPOT report indicates PCF-94 moved 3 miles downriver under hostile fire. The article says 500 yards to a mile. What was the basis for ignoring the SPOT report?
2)The time on site for the rescue of the PC-3 crew and its salvage is not mentioned in the article. Elsewhere it's been reported to be as long as 11/2 hours. This seems like an extremely long time to be in an area where there is hostile fire and not have anyone shot.
3)These are very serious omissions in the article because they apply directly to the veracity of the claims.
4)To this reader it appears possible that PCF-94 was away from the scene for at least 12 minutes and that no hostile fire was present. Otherwise one would have to assume that that the VC shot at PCF-4 for 6 miles(away & back) and missed, and then had the opportunity to shoot at 4 sitting duck boats during a rescue and salvage operation for 11/2 hours and missed, including when the wounded were taken back through the 3 mile hostile fire zone for treatment.
5)Perhaps you should consider following up on another possibility to better fit these facts. Assume that the landing of the ground forces was successful in clearing the area except for a VC irregular that only detonated the mine and ran from the suppressing fire. The suppressing fire was thought to be hostile by some and assumed to be in response to hostile fire by others in the boats.
6)If item 5 is plausible, then the SPOT report is an issue again....hostile fire for 3 miles?
7)Good luck on your follow up. |
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Jack Mclaughlin PO3
Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 280
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Rifleman: The omissions you point out in Mr. Dobbs work is revealing. He knows the holes in Kerry`s accounts ( there are at least three versions ) on that March 13th 1969 incident are many. All the liberal organs are now closing ranks and a massive coverup is now underway. Mr. Dobbs and the Washington Post will join with their allies to keep a lid on this story. Take your good work and send it to major.garrett@foxnews.com. |
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RiflemanDD730 Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 96
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Jack Mclaughlin
Sent as suggested. |
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