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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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 Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: Urban Legends |
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Seems like the identification of topics and issues as Urban Legends to discredit them has become a popular approach on the board lately, so here's some from "SNOPES" that you might find interesting (BTW, both sides are shown here in fairness.. I didn't just cherry-pick the anti-Kerry examples... also, the headlines don't indicate whether the claims are false or true.... you'll need to click for yourself.  Even when the SNOPES folks indicate true or false, often the write-up provides some good additional info... happy reading):
Senator John Kerry referred to a Secret Service agent as a "son of a *****.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/cussword.asp
Photograph shows Senator John Kerry at a 1970 anti-war rally.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry.asp
John Kerry's Vietnam War service medals
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
Senator John Kerry's wife owns Heinz, a company that outsources much of its work abroad.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/heinz.asp
Photograph shows Senator John Kerry and Jane Fonda sharing a speaker's platform at an anti-war rally.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp
Quotes reproduce statements made by Democratic leaders about Saddam Hussein's acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
Didn't find anything on SNOPES indicating that the "spitting on Vietnam Vets" is an Urban Legend though....
Keith |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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The first link reminds me of the time Bush referred to a reporter as "a major league *******."
From this link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/bushcuss.asp | Quote: | Claim: President Bush once referred to a reporter as a "major league *******."
Status: True. |
The second link shows a rally two years before Fonda visited Vietnam in which Kerry is at least 5 rows behind her. No clue as to whether they met or not, which would be the clincher and explains why Photoshop was required to put them in closer proximity.
And you left out the evil counterpart to the second link. Click here:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp
The third link says that Kerry's medals were NOT earned under fishy circumstances. To wit:
| Quote: | Claim: John Kerry's Vietnam War service medals (a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts) were earned under "fishy" circumstances.
Status: False. |
The fourth link, like the above, is a rebuttal to rightwingers:
| Quote: | Claim: Senator John Kerry's wife owns Heinz, a company that outsources much of its work abroad.
Status: False. |
The fifth describes how rightwingers used Photoshop to link Kerry (I mentioned this above as the "evil twin" to your only legitimate photo)
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp :
| Quote: | Claim: Photograph shows Senator John Kerry and Jane Fonda sharing a speaker's platform at an anti-war rally.
Status: False. |
The last link I've already addressed. Many Democrats were suckered by Bush, who distorted the content of his own highly classified PDB's. And the Democrats didn't jump head first into a war that has since turned out to be highly regrettable. They'd have exercised more caution before alienating the entire world except Coalitionistan.
Keith, do you understand how the urban myth site works? They debunk or confirm rumours. When they say "FALSE" it means "urban myth" and not true. When they report "True" it means it's not an urban myth. |
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Keith
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Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Sparky.. please pay attention. What did I say?
| Quote: | | (BTW, both sides are shown here in fairness.. I didn't just cherry-pick the anti-Kerry examples... also, the headlines don't indicate whether the claims are false or true.... you'll need to click for yourself. Even when the SNOPES folks indicate true or false, often the write-up provides some good additional info... happy reading): |
Also, the link you said I left out is there... I didn't leave it out.
| sparky wrote: |
The second link shows a rally two years before Fonda visited Vietnam in which Kerry is at least 5 rows behind her. No clue as to whether they met or not, which would be the clincher and explains why Photoshop was required to put them in closer proximity. |
That photo was not retouched.. the other one was.
| sparky wrote: | | Keith, do you understand how the urban myth site works? They debunk or confirm rumours. When they say "FALSE" it means "urban myth" and not true. When they report "True" it means it's not an urban myth. |
You do read the posts and understand them before you respond, don't you? 
Unlike those who claim to read various sources and look at both sides of an issue, I actually do... and I'm not afraid to share the truth even if it doesn't support my personal agenda.
Keith |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I certainly appreciate your fairness. Thanks for posting so much information beneficial to Kerry, including the assertion that Kerry's medals were legitimate and that claims to the contrary -- made by nearly all of the conservatives here -- are urban myths.
I just knew Kerry's medals were legitimate!
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
And I appreciate your providing that link showing that Kerry critics had used Photoshop to falsify a Kerry/Fonda photo.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp
Your evenhandedness is actually pretty impressive (and rare). I couldn't even match it |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | Thanks for posting so much information beneficial to Kerry, including the assertion that Kerry's medals were legitimate and that claims to the contrary -- made by nearly all of the conservatives here -- are urban myths.
Your evenhandedness is actually pretty impressive (and rare). I couldn't even match it |
Thanks for noticing.
However, the data is not beneficial or harmful to Kerry, it just is. Truth benefits everyone. Folks need to make their decision in November based upon their own core set of beliefs and who they believe will best represent them in the White House. I believe that there is enough true information about John Kerry that bothers me to make my decision easy without my having to dig up false stuff. Others may not value the same things I value and may agree with Kerry's positions or support his actions or find that those things don't bother them... it's a free country, no?
However, truth applies to George Bush as well, and the hate that some feel for him (for reasons I confess I do not understand) is causing folks to find fault in him for everything that goes wrong in the world. I believe that:
1) It's much harder to hear someone when they are shouting at you
2) You can't have an intelligent discussion if you don't listen to the other person
3) The easiest way to lose a debate is to attack your opponent personally (and you may be the only one to not realize you lost)
4) I can live with losing a debate; losing my integrity is unacceptable. As such, it is important to clearly differentiate between what I believe to be facts and what I know to be my own opinion
5) You may have a slight chance of influencing someone's opinion if you listen, acknowledge, respond and then present your position while insisting on the same courtesy from your opponent; you will have no chance of influencing anyone if they do not respect you; the easiest way to lose someone's respect is to disrespect them
Just my thoughts... Sorry for getting sappy and ruining the mood of the posts here 
Keith |
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Jim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I found this info quite enlightening. I have not heard of SNOPES before...is this an accepted and legitimate site that "debunks" urban myths, as you've called them?
Or is there more (or less) to this site and its politics? I'm not trying to undermine your info at all, just am sincerely curious as to this site's merit. |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim wrote: | I found this info quite enlightening. I have not heard of SNOPES before...is this an accepted and legitimate site that "debunks" urban myths, as you've called them?
Or is there more (or less) to this site and its politics? I'm not trying to undermine your info at all, just am sincerely curious as to this site's merit. |
Fair question.
www.snopes.com
is a site that has been around for a long time. The folks that run it specialize in either proving or disproving much of the garbage circulating (mostly on the NET these days). Very small percent refers to politics.. I just searched their site for "Kerry". Most of the hits weren't even about John Kerry.
I don't think I've actually detected a political slant to SNOPES... they're just looking for the truth 
Interesting stuff on that site.
Keith |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim, the Snopes site is generally considered the most authoritative urban myth site on the net. |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Jim, the Snopes site is generally considered the most authoritative urban myth site on the net. |
Confirmation from both sides... I can feel the love in the room  |
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