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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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 Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| So, they were running at "full speed" when the mine went off? What is that, 25 mph? They could stop from that in less than 100 yds., I would think. Some diagrams would help, like one showing where the 3 boat went into a spin (remember that)? So you're saying all of the action occurred down-river from the weir several hundred yards? I hadn't heard that before, I heard the 3 boat lost an engine, had one running at part-throttle and was spinning, which threw Thurlow into the water trying to get aboard, then he tried again and made it. Am I completely off-base here? |
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Wing Wiper wrote: | | So, they were running at "full speed" when the mine went off? What is that, 25 mph? They could stop from that in less than 100 yds., I would think. Some diagrams would help, like one showing where the 3 boat went into a spin (remember that)? So you're saying all of the action occurred down-river from the weir several hundred yards? I hadn't heard that before, I heard the 3 boat lost an engine, had one running at part-throttle and was spinning, which threw Thurlow into the water trying to get aboard, then he tried again and made it. Am I completely off-base here? |
I don't know if it's still available online but the Washington Post had a diagram with its 8/21 article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/graphics/swiftboat_082104.html
It appears from this that the boats, except for Kerry's, stayed near the site of the explosion.
there's a problem with Rassmann's claim of taking a weapon forward. It seems unlikely that if a mine did explode near Kerry's boat it would have happened almost simultaneously with the mine exploding under the 3 boat. which wouldn't have given enough time for Rassmann to begin moving forward.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain
Last edited by jalexson on Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RiflemanDD730
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Good "what if" analysis lobster.
Reports indicate the PCF-3 was blown 2-3 ft out of the water which might affect the distance it would travel. Also, were they going full speed through the weir or did they normally slow down and thats why the mine was placed near the weir? According to the diagram in the Post Thurlow(51) and Chenoweth(23) were behind PCF-3 on the left side of the channel so they would close on that boat without having to turn.
According to the Post, PCF-4 was on the right side of the channel followed by PCF-43 so Rassmann would have had to worry only about the 43 boat hitting him.
And you're right, interviews with all the participants are needed. |
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And you're right, interviews with all the participants are needed. |
Well, perhaps not. If you conducted independent interviews with 3 or 4 sailors on different boats, then combined their testimonies and see where they all agreed, went back to them separately and asked a few questions to dig into the areas where they disagreed, you would have a 95% accurate view of the events. If you put that together and presented it to Kerry, you would make him look stupid trying to dispute the details, because at some point it would defy logic. I often wonder if O'Neill doesn't have pictures of the 3 boat and the whole ambush area.  |
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RudolphBR
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1
Location: Silver City, NM
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| I have a question or two. It is stated that Kerry's boat moved 5000yds away from the firefight. If I remember right, as a former RD/OS, the Navy uses 2000 yards as a marked 1 mile; therfore Kerry was 2.5 miles from the fight. Damn he has good eyesight to see a man in the water. Aslo, all xmissions are recorded in a station or ships log, and are archived. Rasmussen, may have heard a firefight around him, what it sounds like he was hearing, was cover fire coming from the boats in the area in the form of a suppresion blanket |
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Eric Rasmusen
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:18 am Post subject: |
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"Rassmann", not "Rasmussen" please, to save my Rasmusen family honor!
This is a very good thread-- thank you all. I quote it in my weblog at
http://www.rasmusen.org/x/archives/c/archives/000161.html
as an example of how journalists could benefit if they knew how to use the Web. |
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I haven't read everything at this posting yet... but from what ya'll are sayin....
I live in a trailer.... 50 ft long and it sets back about 240 ft from the road... and if someone snuk (I like that spelling) half way up my property and started shooting at my trailer.... would they be able to hit it?
[b]you bet[/b]! (ok, I'm moving.... ) - maybe they should think about drive by shootings (we have alot of them out here).... and many people get hit and a lot are killed in these drive bys.....
'they' wouldn't even need to be a very good shot to hit my trailer.... if I had as much fire coming at it as Kerry says they had.... I'd be hit... (dead) the trailer would be RIDDLED with holes.... GOOD GRIEF! HOW BLIND... OR STUPID OR STUBBORN CAN SO MANY PEOPLE BE??????? |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: Rassmann |
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In other versions of this story, it was the 94 Boat that was used to tow the 3 Boat. Clearly, it did not fight its way to the gulf, towing another boat. So we have a lie here because you cannot have it both ways.
Another version stated that Kerry was taken with other injured parties to the infirmary offshore. In the fogawar, did Rassmann forget that he too was taken to the infirmary. Or did he fight his way out of the river, being injured on the way. If the former, a record of his injury would be available. If the latter, corroboration is absent along with repair records, medical records, etc. Either way, his rather detailed story before and during the convention, has omitted critical details.
| Kranish wrote: | | ...After tossing the grenades, the two dove for cover. Rassmann escaped.... |
Recall that Kerry probably was injured in the left buttock as a result of exploding rice. If Rassman earned a Purple Heart that day, it probably was aboard the 94 Boat.
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'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2 |
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RacerJim
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Rockville Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jalexson wrote: | | Wing Wiper wrote: | | So, they were running at "full speed" when the mine went off? What is that, 25 mph? They could stop from that in less than 100 yds., I would think. Some diagrams would help, like one showing where the 3 boat went into a spin (remember that)? So you're saying all of the action occurred down-river from the weir several hundred yards? I hadn't heard that before, I heard the 3 boat lost an engine, had one running at part-throttle and was spinning, which threw Thurlow into the water trying to get aboard, then he tried again and made it. Am I completely off-base here? |
I don't know if it's still available online but the Washington Post had a diagram with its 8/21 article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html
It appears from this that the boats, except for Kerry's, stayed near the site of the explosion.
there's a problem with Rassmann's claim of taking a weapon forward. It seems unlikely that if a mine did explode near Kerry's boat it would have happened almost simultaneously with the mine exploding under the 3 boat. which wouldn't have given enough time for Rassmann to begin moving forward. |
I just clicked that washingtonpost link above and the diagram didn't show up. However, when the story first appeared I printed the diagram. If someone here would tell me how to post it here I'll scan (let me know at what resolution, what size and in which file-format) it and post it. |
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Tom Poole
Vice Admiral
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 914
Location: America
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:15 am Post subject: Re: How is this possible? |
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Thanks. I've corrected the URL in my post.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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