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Have we been betrayed again?
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Herb
Lieutenant


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Have we been betrayed again? Reply with quote

Wuzthere2 wrote:
Holding a finger up to test the breeze lately and it was hit by some slime. Would like to know what the prevailing wisdom is regarding the Bush McCain alliance against the 527s. Have we just been used once again? And in case you think I'm just some hack, I helped pull two guys out the Bay Hap on March 13th...and don't have the first medal to show for it! That would be the same story for everyone on the 23 boat. Then as now, something doesn't smell quite right here. Kind of like just before an ambush.


Welcome home -- you are a hero to us, wish WE could give you a medal.

McCain is goofy, especially about the MONSTER HE CREATED with campaign finance reform. The only issue that unites the NRA, ACLU, Planned Parenthood, and just about every other group with a political issue.

Bush is LEGALLY forbidden from coordination and to me -- and the FEC chairman which counts -- that means POSITIVE or NEGATIVE coordination with any 527 group.

Politically he has to actually follow the law rigidly since the old media would tar and feather him while acting as apologists for the Democrats and Kerry.

McCain has issues from Nam -- it seems clear -- and personally I would not vote for him due to his experiences there.

These are really NOT his fault; I have two excellent friends who were POWs and both happen to be fine human beings, but I would not want a single one of them to be president. Senator is fine as long as he isn't near the line of succession.
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 1451
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a silver lining in this whole Kerry mess....

the Vietnam Vets are finally getting the thanks and honor they so richly deserve! And this Kerry thing after he came home has been like a festering sore.... and it's being lanced!!!!!!!! yahoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The poison will flow and then the Vets can heal! (at least from that part of it). It's so VERY, VERY LONG OVERDUE!

And another thing our young people are getting a very important lesson about honor and sevice and truth. So many of them don't even come close to having a clue. (which reminds me... I've been wanting to check out what kids ARE learning in school about this part of our history and about our country). If I'd been at that convention, I'd have been talking to those protestors.... not running from them! I'd like to know if they know WHY THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTEST!

OK, I'm off my soapbox.... time for sleep .... fox and weekend friends is on already!
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stealthy
Lieutenant


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see an opportunity here. The fact that Kerry is once again defaming the men who served with him deserves action. That Waz feels he's hated again in his community makes me mad. That others are being investigated and called liars is wrong. It means Kerry's character hasn't changed and he'll smear vets till he gets every last one. Even the ones who stand with him look bad. That vets are being protested at their work and losing their jobs because of speaking out is wrong. (French) That Admirals are being smeared for telling the truth is wrong.

Use it. It pulls on my heartstrings and anyone with a heart will be supportive and mad at those attacking you again. That brings it all into today, not just 35 years ago. Connect yesterday with today. There's lots of ammo there.
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Wing Wiper
Rear Admiral


Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 664
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just keep leading him by the nose until he's called all 25 million of us liars. Many vets, if they feel strongly about something, can influence family members and friends. It's the stupidest move Kerry can make to go against a force in this country like the veterans represent. I believe that will be his fatal mistake. Let him talk, there are a LOT of us listening. Where's that picture of the Winter Soldiers defaming the Iwo Jima Memorial? We should be getting that in front of the public next.
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bergstrom79
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wuzthere2,

Welcome home!

Don't worry, it's going to work out for the best. One thing this election will do is define the US involvement in Vietnam once and for all. It was shunned aside for decades, after the election is over and the dust gets cleared, some journalists will take a deep hard look into the whole affair.

And I am certain they will find our cause was just. It'll take them ~ 40 yrs to finally figure it out.

One other thing will come from it.... The swifts will be justified once the MSM is forced to look into the swifts allegations and O'Neill's book. History will look kindly on the swifts for what they did and how they did it.

Who knows, the MSM might be forced into an exorcism of sorts b/c of the public's backlash. Your story they're ignoring is causing them much embarrassment.

Thank you for your service and duty, sir.
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Kathy Kay
Ensign


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GiveMeFreedom wrote:
per McCain in the article: No one wants to abolish them, but as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said yesterday: "They should live under the same campaign-finance restrictions [as hard-money campaign groups], because they are engaged in partisan activity." Very Happy



And please educate me here -- would the campaign-finance restriction hurt an organization like moveon.org more than you guys? Isn't the former being funded primarily by one person whereas your base is much broader? Excuse my ignorance but I am still trying to absorb all of the information I'm finding here.
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Herb
Lieutenant


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kathy Kay wrote:
GiveMeFreedom wrote:
per McCain in the article: No one wants to abolish them, but as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said yesterday: "They should live under the same campaign-finance restrictions [as hard-money campaign groups], because they are engaged in partisan activity." Very Happy



And please educate me here -- would the campaign-finance restriction hurt an organization like moveon.org more than you guys? Isn't the former being funded primarily by one person whereas your base is much broader? Excuse my ignorance but I am still trying to absorb all of the information I'm finding here.


Caveat: I know nothing for certain on this topic but from reading/hearing news reports which are notoriously unreliable the following is like close to the mark...

There was some initial seed money for the SwiftVets but after that the Swiftees are actually PROUD of their broadbased and small supporters who give in great numbers even it is only $5 or $64 on average.

Other than that, it would hurt the Swiftees less than (and now probably not at all) MOST 527's because they are PROUD of their donors and the left is ashamed or hiding their large donors.

It would be great to know who gives how much the MoveOn.org and be able to pin this back to the democrats and maybe even Kerry's family.

Personally, I have ZERO problem with a requirement that requires PUBLIC donor disclosure of all political organizations -- free speech, but one must responsiblity publicly.

I have also proposed the opposite plan: One could give ONLY anonymously to political CANDIDATES or parties (through a blind trust) so that no one could prove they had given large amounts to a candidate when asking for return favors.
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debewley
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 69
Location: Florida Panhandle

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Have we been betrayed again? Reply with quote

Wuzthere2 wrote:
Holding a finger up to test the breeze lately and it was hit by some slime. Would like to know what the prevailing wisdom is regarding the Bush McCain alliance against the 527s. Have we just been used once again? And in case you think I'm just some hack, I helped pull two guys out the Bay Hap on March 13th...and don't have the first medal to show for it! That would be the same story for everyone on the 23 boat. Then as now, something doesn't smell quite right here. Kind of like just before an ambush.


Wuzthere2,
Thanks so much for the sacrifice you made in VN and thank you so much for the service that you are now rendering to your country. The fact that you and the other Swiftees are being attacked and abused for merely telling the truth demonstrates clearly just how dangerous these people really are. They must be prevented from coming to power and your stand is contributing to insure that end.

It is truly unfortunate that so few of you are required to bear this burden. But be assured that every man and woman who served honorably in Vietnam is a Swiftee now. All of us had our service and our integrity challenged by Kerry and the VVAW.

You will win in the end. Until that time keep the faith and God bless you and yours!
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JCBoston
Seaman


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Have we been betrayed again? Reply with quote

Wuzthere2 wrote:
Holding a finger up to test the breeze lately and it was hit by some slime. Would like to know what the prevailing wisdom is regarding the Bush McCain alliance against the 527s. Have we just been used once again? And in case you think I'm just some hack, I helped pull two guys out the Bay Hap on March 13th...and don't have the first medal to show for it! That would be the same story for everyone on the 23 boat. Then as now, something doesn't smell quite right here. Kind of like just before an ambush.


I think you guys have to keep in mind that you are in completely uncharted waters with this whole thing. What is going on with 527 groups is a brand new dynamic in American politics. I think the key word there being "politics". The president is just being a politician, because if he doesn't he knows he will be crucified for it, and the stakes with this election are far too high to be taking chances.

Stay true to your original mission and soldier on.
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hanna
Rear Admiral


Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think sometimes, we need to think outside the box, and sometimes we need to go simply go on faith because like it or not, there are things, lots of things we do not know.

Like the war in Iraq for example. There are things that we as civilians simply cannot know and some of those things are the things that certain decisions have been made.

This is one reason why having confidence in the character and integrity of our leaders is so important.

I think what McCain and Bush are doing now is another instance where we need to look outside the box, see a larger picture, have a little faith.
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Tony
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Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 119
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks for the feedback Reply with quote

Wuzthere2 wrote:
Appreciate all the kind words and thoughts on this. It just seems here in Florida i sense some growing resentment towards the swift sailors. It's very reminiscent of my return here in 1970. Not a comfortable feeling!


No resentment here in North Florida. Thank you, Sir.
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rhv5862
PO2


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 379
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Betrayed Again? Reply with quote

I don't think this is being betrayed. Bush made a political move which brought McCain on board and he has now said what Kerry did in 1971 is fair game. Bush as well as McCain know 527 ads will not be affected this year by anything they do. FEC will do nothing for fear of their being accused of doing something that will swing the election one way or the other. Bush by saying all 527 ads need to be stopped widens the gap between himself and SBVT. I believe President Bush has done more for Vets and Military since he has been in office that prior administration.

If not for SBVT Kerry may have had a double digit lead by now. Thanks to SBVT this has not happen. The pressure needs to be kept on by all of us talking to people in our areas and let them know the truth by showing them the facts and demanding Kerry sign SF 180.

RHV
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Malvern
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 31
Location: PA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kmmpatriot:
Quote:
I don't even feel worthy of replying to this thread...thank you for your service NOW AND THEN! …….
You are all amazing and so many of us are in awe of your willingness to put yourselves out there as you have. Thank you again.


I’m with kmmpatrior. I’m simply a proud “Navy brat.” My father (deceased) was a career officer, and my step-father was also a career officer. I slept soundly and safely every night of my life because you men and women did your jobs. Wartime and peacetime, you stood your posts, you put yourselves in harms way, and we are a free country because of you! I have Z-E-R-O patients with anyone who doesn’t see that.


Wazthere2:
Quote:
Appreciate all the kind words and thoughts on this. It just seems here in Florida i sense some growing resentment towards the swift sailors. It's very reminiscent of my return here in 1970. Not a comfortable feeling!

Not too long ago I read an article about how many of Kerry’s henchmen had been sent to Fla. to do, among other things.. just what you describe. If I can find the article I’ll give you the link. Hang in there. We love you and are eternally grateful.
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spectrout
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
Location: South Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herb wrote:
Quote:
It would be great to know who gives how much the MoveOn.org and be able to pin this back to the democrats and maybe even Kerry's family.


Go to: http://www.publicintegrity.org/527/search.aspx?act=con&sec=indiv&sub=topindiv

For example: Top five contributors to all 527s. Note all dem/lib causes

Lewis, Peter B 14,375,000
Soros, George and Susan W. 13,120,000
Fonda, Jane 13,085,750
Bing, Stephen L. 9,869,014
Harris IV, John A. 4,591,500

Contributors of at Least $10,000 to moveon.org

George Soros/Soros Fund Management $2,601,000
Peter B. Lewis/The Progressive Corp. $2,500,000
Stephen Bing/Shangri-La Entertainment $971,427
JPS International LLC $200,000
Cullman Ventures Inc. $100,000
Richard & Shari Famous Foos $100,000
Gail A. Furman, PhD $52,000
John R. Hunting and Related Interests $40,000
Jonathan Rose Companies LLC $25,000
John A. Harris IV $10,000

The amount of money going to 527s supporting dem/lib causes over rep/con causes is huge. Bush knew what he was doing
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gkdechow
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Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 67
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SBVT "is a 527"!! MoveOn and the other big Dem orgs are "Fake 527s" and actually just part of the Kerry Campaign getting around McCain Fingold. It should be the duty of the FEC to quickly stop and enjoin the "Fake 527s.
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