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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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 Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:42 am Post subject: Looking in on Kerry's Supporters |
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Occasionally, I have to view sites promoting John “F”in Kerry. Tonight, it was moveon.org. I have to laugh at the flagrant scare tactics they use. But, what really makes me laugh was seeing the transcript of Al Gore’s speech wherein he says, “I hope and believe that this year the politics of fear will be defeated and the truth shall rise again.”
What makes it so funny is that just above his transcript link, we see the following headlines;
THE MOVIE THE WHITE HOUSE DOESN’T WANT YOU TO SEE.
Within this link, you may download a flyer they ask to be handed out at theaters showing the new movie, The Day After, crying about Global Warming and how Bush is causing it. Within said flyer, they also state the movie is fiction and could never happen, but that we are headed that way anyway.
FIRE RUMSFELD: help us air a TV ad.
Speaks for itself, we all know how scarey he is.
CENSURE BUSH FOR MISLEADING US
Also speaks for itself. Let’s keep the babies scared enough to fear Bush.
MOVEON’S 50 WAYS TO LOVE YOUR COUNTY
Yes, we know, subjecting it to the UN is number one.
PROTECT OUR KIDS FROM MERCURY POLLUTION
Now here’s a subject that doesn’t inspire fear, right?
Well, I hope Algore is right. I do hope we can defeat the politics of fear this year. The Democrats have been crying the sky is falling for decades now and this time around they have John “F”in Kerry walking point. Too bad his buddy Algore can’t see that politics of fear is the tried and true method of the Democratic party. |
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sparky
Former Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 546
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | MOVEON’S 50 WAYS TO LOVE YOUR COUNTY
Yes, we know, subjecting it to the UN is number one. |
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Just to clarify: since the rightwing is so fond of spreading urban myths, the above assertion is entirely untrue. While I'm sure that this won't stop many of you rightwingers from repeating it, try to be responsible and restrain yourselves. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Running to the defense of Moveon.org, Sparky? Very telling, I'd say.
As for my comment that number one was subjecting the US to the UN, that was tongue in cheek, since we keep hearing how John "F"in Kerry would not moveon anything without their approval first.
Did you miss the other headlines? I really liked the flyer they want passed out at theaters showing The Day After." From the flyer itself, we read;
| Quote: | The abrupt climate crisis in The Day After Tomorrow
is over the top. A full-blown ice age could not
happen. But global warming could bring
dangerously cold temperatures in some areas,
while others suffer severe storms, extreme heat,
floods, droughts and water shortages.
Here in the U.S., cars, trucks and coal-fired power
plants spew over half of all pollution that causes
global warming. But that’s not inevitable. Together
we can turn it around. |
Maybe John "F"in Kerry should stop heating and cooling some of the several mansions he and Teresa own or stop using any of the SUVs he owned in Detroit, but later claimed he didn't own, his family did. |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Looking in on Kerry's Supporters |
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This can't be ignored.
| LewWaters wrote: | Occasionally, I have to view sites promoting John “F”in Kerry. Tonight, it was moveon.org. I have to laugh at the flagrant scare tactics they use. But, what really makes me laugh was seeing the transcript of Al Gore’s speech wherein he says, “I hope and believe that this year the politics of fear will be defeated and the truth shall rise again.”
What makes it so funny is that just above his transcript link, we see the following headlines;
THE MOVIE THE WHITE HOUSE DOESN’T WANT YOU TO SEE. |
Nothing scary here just intriguing. Me =1 Lew=0.
| LewWaters wrote: |
Within this link, you may download a flyer they ask to be handed out at theaters showing the new movie, The Day After, crying about Global Warming and how Bush is causing it. Within said flyer, they also state the movie is fiction and could never happen, but that we are headed that way anyway.
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Regards of how you feel about Global warming. It is occuring. Fact. Sorry no biscuit. I could provide a plethora of links. There is NO credible source that claims human activities aren't affecting the global climate. The threat is not being hyped. It is being under-hyped. I trust the results of the IPCC report made up of expert climatologist and scientist internationally , and distrust fossil fuel industry PR flaks. Right wing morons cling to this chicken little analogy propagated by OPEC and right wing polemists and fail to act. I have been listening to the scientist from the early 90's, and for a decade THEY and I HAVE BEEN CORRECT. The icecaps, glaciers, are melting. There are other environmental indicators. These aren't scare tactics. These are facts. If they make you scared that's your deal. Personally, they make me mad. If you don't think there is a problem with what comes out of your exhaust on your car, spend a 1/2 hour in your garage with the engine on. Do that first and then vote for an oil president, who will trump up reasons to fight for oil in the gulf. Who will pull out of Kyoto and flip the bird to the international community.
| Quote: |
FIRE RUMSFELD: help us air a TV ad.
Speaks for itself, we all know how scarey he is.
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Nothing about Abu Ghraib links? Me:2 You:1
| Quote: |
CENSURE BUSH FOR MISLEADING US
Also speaks for itself. Let’s keep the babies scared enough to fear Bush.
One acronym: WMD's
Could provide links if you'd like to further waste my time educating you.
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Me:3 You:1
| LewWaters wrote: |
MOVEON’S 50 WAYS TO LOVE YOUR COUNTY
Yes, we know, subjecting it to the UN is number one.
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You mean the organization that the US created? More fear tactics?
Me: 4 on principle, You:0 for not stating anything important.
| LewWaters wrote: |
PROTECT OUR KIDS FROM MERCURY POLLUTION
Now here’s a subject that doesn’t inspire fear, right?
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Actually mercury is a real problem. It causes brain damage.
Me: 2 to the second power, You: -1
| LewWaters wrote: |
Well, I hope Algore is right. I do hope we can defeat the politics of fear this year. The Democrats have been crying the sky is falling for decades now and this time around they have John “F”in Kerry walking point. Too bad his buddy Algore can’t see that politics of fear is the tried and true method of the Democratic party. |
Walking point... right... |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:04 am Post subject: |
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You're scoring is as flawed as your assertions. But, you did prove one thing, who is really using scare tactics. The Kyoto Agreement is about flawed as your scoring. I can counter links you want to put up about it. Think you're paying a lot for gas now? Go back to the Kyoto agreement and see what you pay and how many jobs are lost. Then, explain why so many other polluting countries were exempted from it.
Your post proves beyond any doubt that Democrats are still crying the sky is falling. So, let me ask, have you stopped using your car, air conditioner, electric lights and such? If not, you are also polluting.
Scientists are not in agreement on this claim of global warming, but the left doesn't want that known. Only their view is supposed to be discussed. |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| LewWaters wrote: | You're scoring is as flawed as your assertions. But, you did prove one thing, who is really using scare tactics. The Kyoto Agreement is about flawed as your scoring. I can counter links you want to put up about it. Think you're paying a lot for gas now? Go back to the Kyoto agreement and see what you pay and how many jobs are lost. Then, explain why so many other polluting countries were exempted from it.
Your post proves beyond any doubt that Democrats are still crying the sky is falling. So, let me ask, have you stopped using your car, air conditioner, electric lights and such? If not, you are also polluting.
| Quote: |
Scientists are not in agreement on this claim of global warming, but the left doesn't want that known. Only their view is supposed to be discussed. |
What is your point? That I'm a hypocrit? Doesn't mean I'm wrong about global warming. I've heard this argument before. Drives me nuts. Has nothing to do with the situation.
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Wrong. Look Scientists are in agreement. Look up IPCC. Don't make me educate you. You are just buying polemic crap from right wing pundits, and PR from the fossil fuel industry and OPEC. Did you know that they spent millions of dollars on PR before the Bush admin. moved out of Kyoto?
We missed a great chance to move away from fuel over the last few presidencies. I don't want to get into the details with you.
BTW your links that counter it are not credible. Give me one... and I'll trash it.
I'll only say this once:
Of the 2,500 leading Scientific experts on Global warming (climatoligists and physicists) There are only about 12 that disagree. Many of those twelve have links to fossil fuel industry or other comprimising funders. Some of them state political opinions, which is odd for objective scientists. There is actually a better argument than this amatuer one, but that one is crap too. Even if they are wrong it's still best to be prudent.
End of story.
I could go into it but your arguments are either wrong or unproven. You should back up your job claims with some links, and I might bother to thrash em if I feel like it. |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Looking in on Kerry's Supporters |
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| LewWaters wrote: |
MOVEON’S 50 WAYS TO LOVE YOUR COUNTY
Yes, we know, subjecting it to the UN is number one.
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I'm betting they won't even use a condom 
Keith |
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Keith
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Looking in on Kerry's Supporters |
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| Jeremy Eaton wrote: |
Regards of how you feel about Global warming. It is occuring. Fact. Sorry no biscuit. I could provide a plethora of links. There is NO credible source that claims human activities aren't affecting the global climate. The threat is not being hyped. It is being under-hyped. I trust the results of the IPCC report made up of expert climatologist and scientist internationally , and distrust fossil fuel industry PR flaks. Right wing morons cling to this chicken little analogy propagated by OPEC and right wing polemists and fail to act. I have been listening to the scientist from the early 90's, and for a decade THEY and I HAVE BEEN CORRECT. The icecaps, glaciers, are melting. There are other environmental indicators. These aren't scare tactics. These are facts. If they make you scared that's your deal. Personally, they make me mad. If you don't think there is a problem with what comes out of your exhaust on your car, spend a 1/2 hour in your garage with the engine on. Do that first and then vote for an oil president, who will trump up reasons to fight for oil in the gulf. Who will pull out of Kyoto and flip the bird to the international community.
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Perhaps you are familiar with this:
http://www.nationalcenter.org/KyotoSenate.html
| Quote: | Sponsored by Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) and Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
Expressing the sense of the Senate regarding the conditions for the United States becoming a signatory to any international agreement on greenhouse gas emissions under the United Nations... (Passed by the Senate 95-0)
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Follow the link above for the full text. This vote was taken on July 25, 1997... so early in the Bush Presidency, he wasn't even elected yet.
While Kerry did express at the time that he believed in global warming, he also expressed concern about Kyoto and, by the way, voted with the 95-0 majority (he didn't even abstain).
I'd really appreciate your at least trying to set aside your clear hatred for our President and debate the issues on the facts.
Keith |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Don't make me educate you. |
Son, you better educate yourself before you even think of trying to educate me. But, since you are so learned on the subject, please explain why other nations, you know, some of those that are pumping the 80% of pollutants into the air versus the US's 20%, most of them were exempted from the agreement?
Again, I'll ask, what modern conveniences that are adding to world pollution have you given up? Your car? Air Conditioning? Electric lights? Tell us just what sacrifices you have personally made for a cleaner tomorrow. |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Eaton wrote: | | Scientists are in agreement. |
| Quote: |
Of the 2,500 leading Scientific experts on Global warming (climatoligists and physicists) There are only about 12 that disagree. |
Contradictory, wouldn't you say?
_________________
De Oppresso Liber |
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Greenhat
LCDR
Joined: 09 May 2004
Posts: 405
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Marine's Wife
PO3
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:10 am Post subject: subject |
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Sparky, you know how to google don't you? Try typing in http://www.oilforfoodinvestigations .It's all there.
I've kept a record on the UN for years. That mess is just that! A damn crooked ,impotent,mess at that!! |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky wrote: | | Quote: | MOVEON’S 50 WAYS TO LOVE YOUR COUNTY
Yes, we know, subjecting it to the UN is number one. |
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Just to clarify: since the rightwing is so fond of spreading urban myths, the above assertion is entirely untrue. While I'm sure that this won't stop many of you rightwingers from repeating it, try to be responsible and restrain yourselves. |
Sparky,
The left does love the U.N. as it appeals to their internationalist "people of the world" sentiments. You should not be ashamed of this. It's a true difference in ideology. We can accept that.
However, the phrase "subjecting [the U.S.] to the UN [as a way to "love your country"] is metaphorical, and I believe if this was on the MoveOn site, was meant as sarcasm.
If you continue to have problems with metaphors and linguistic nuance, and interpret everything concretely, you will be even more ignored and discredited than you are now (if that is possible!) 
FDL |
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Jeremy Eaton
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Greenhat, did you read those links?
Nothing about what you stated there. If you are going to use stats please try to provide a link or source. I will source my stats as well. Otherwise, I'll ignore them. I cannot find that information in the Kyoto protocol anywhere. (36%)
I'm not sure what your point in providing the links, but thanks for the info!
The one on methane was interesting.
And let me qualify for your benefit:
Anybody doing serious study on this topic is in agreement that the global average temperature is increasing and is due to human activities. Period. There are dissenting scientists that are privately funded, that no one takes very seriously. So in that sense you are right, and I am wrong, the scientists aren't in agreement. But in the sense that the more objective forums, and amongst the leading experts in the field, I am right. So you want to invest your trust into PR firms and the bottom-less pocket fossil fuel industry funded studies. Go ahead. We'll just agree to disagree, ok? |
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