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From the Newsweek poll - out 6 Sep

 
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7rrfs
Seaman Apprentice


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:29 am    Post subject: From the Newsweek poll - out 6 Sep Reply with quote

[url] http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-04-2004/0002244238&EDATE=[/url]

Bush/Cheney Lead Kerry/Edwards 54 to 43 Percent; in a Three-Way Trial Heat,
Bush/Cheney Receive 13-Point Margin Bounce

Bush Approval Rating Rises to 52 Percent; First Time Above 50 Since January;
Majority (53%) Wants to See Him Re-Elected-Highest Since May 2003


As to the presidential candidates' military service, though 75 percent of registered voters say what they've seen or heard about Bush's military service will not have much effect on their vote, and 62 percent say the same about Kerry's military service in Vietnam, 75 percent of registered voters have seen or heard about the recent TV Ads sponsored by a veterans' group questioning Kerry's military record. And (only!) 21 percent say those ads are generally accurate.
Thirty-nine percent say they are misleading or distorted. Only 25 percent are not aware of those ads.

Twenty-seven percent of registered voters think the
Bush/Cheney campaign is behind the ads, while 38 percent think they were produced independently. (However, 26 percent of military households who have seen or heard about John Kerry's military record say they are less likely to
vote for him).




It is my humble opinion, as previously stated, that the SwiftVets need to establish, with official documentation, that there is a direct and irrefutable link between John Kerry and his misdeeds in Vietnam. Something with is fingerprints all over it.


Not something that will take a voter 45 minutes of study to go, "EURIKA!" either. Something that the media will HAVE to take a hard look at.

Something that will erect the tombstone.
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"I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry
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ashter
Seaman


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the focus should be on his actions [u]after[/u] his vietnam tour. There's plenty of released official documents available to the public to use against Kerry.

I work with a Vietnam Vet and showed him the "New Soldier" and he immediately sent it to all his buddies. He knew about Jane Fonda, but had no idea of John Kerry's involvement at that time.

The focus should be on how Kerry is unfit to lead this nation based on the fact that he worked with the enemy to sell out the troops, while he was still in the military.
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openfish24
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:58 am    Post subject: Newsweek Poll Reply with quote

I think proceeding with making sure the public is aware of exactly what Kerry did after he got out of the service is the way to proceed at this point. After the public sees what Kerry did and starts to have more faith in the swifties I would then revisit his vietnam history if it is still needed. I think it is important at this point to try and get the public to see the new Benedict Arnold (aka John Kerry). His treasonous actions have gone unpunished for too long. And, I think in large part encouraged those like him to emulate those acts in the present day.

Pete Bartow
USMC 75-80
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producehawk
PO1


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 463

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, some of the medal stuff, while daming, has enough wiggle room for the media to ignore it. However, the Paris meetings, New soldier book and his testomony are hard core facts they can't ignore.
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openfish24
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:03 am    Post subject: Newsweek Poll Reply with quote

I think proceeding with making sure the public is aware of exactly what Kerry did after he got out of the service is the way to proceed at this point. After the public sees what Kerry did and starts to have more faith in the swifties I would then revisit his vietnam history if it is still needed. I think it is important at this point to try and get the public to see the new Benedict Arnold (aka John Kerry). His treasonous actions have gone unpunished for too long. And, I think in large part encouraged those like him to emulate those acts in the present day.

Pete Bartow
USMC 75-80
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openfish24
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:04 am    Post subject: Newsweek Poll Reply with quote

I think proceeding with making sure the public is aware of exactly what Kerry did after he got out of the service is the way to proceed at this point. After the public sees what Kerry did and starts to have more faith in the swifties I would then revisit his vietnam history if it is still needed. I think it is important at this point to try and get the public to see the new Benedict Arnold (aka John Kerry). His treasonous actions have gone unpunished for too long. And, I think in large part encouraged those like him to emulate those acts in the present day.

Pete Bartow
USMC 75-80
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Mooncusser
Lieutenant


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree.

The medals reveal a character flaw and can be argued.

Treason is Treason...documented.
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MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An

I actually won the election before I lost it.

"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse)
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7rrfs
Seaman Apprentice


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think proceeding with making sure the public is aware of exactly what Kerry did after he got out of the service is the way to proceed at this point. After the public sees what Kerry did and starts to have more faith in the swifties I would then revisit his vietnam history if it is still needed.


IMHO, this is incorrect. If you start with the premise that the SwiftVets are suspect then any furture statements from them will be suspect as well. While the anti-war activities need to continue, a rock solid - proveable - official - non-spinable nail from Vietnam to hammer in his coffin must be found.

ONE solid nail of in country fraudulence. Thats all the SwiftVets need. Just one to re-establish credibility beyond any reasonable doubt.

imho This would finish Kerry once and for all. No comeback possible. Finished. Done.
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"I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry
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jimbob
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The focus should be on how Kerry is unfit to lead this nation based on the fact that he worked with the enemy to sell out the troops, while he was still in the military.


I think the "Stolen Honor" site will make a good first step ( http://www.stolenhonor.com/index.asp ). Based on the sample clips this documentary will be powerfull, if they can find a media outlet for it.
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JCJR
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimbob wrote:
Quote:
The focus should be on how Kerry is unfit to lead this nation based on the fact that he worked with the enemy to sell out the troops, while he was still in the military.


I think the "Stolen Honor" site will make a good first step ( http://www.stolenhonor.com/index.asp ). Based on the sample clips this documentary will be powerfull, if they can find a media outlet for it.


Hi jimbob

There is always the AOL marketing approach--

Given a few million bucks, they could send a DVD of "Stolen Honor" to every registered voter in every swing state.

I haven't checked costs lately (probably getting cheaper all the time), but in high quantities, you can mass-mail DVD's for less than a buck apiece.

=====

That was one of my standard arguments against the folks who have an image of the 'socially conscious, caring, egalitarian' Michael Moore...

Moore made so much money on Fahrenheit 911, if he REALLY wanted to 'make a difference' rather than 'make a lot of money', he could easily afford to send a free DVD to everybody in the USA that matters!

Most folks have switched to set-top DVD players. I think that most LIKELY VOTERS who receive a free DVD, would be rather likely to watch it! If they were impressed, likely loan it to friends!

JCJR
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FireDog53
Ensign


Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The conduct of Kerry in Viet Nam will remain but to start hitting Kerry with his actions upon his return and his disdain not only for the Viet Nam vets but the country itself will be eyeopening. His remarks about veterans orgnizations and his own book, especially the cover can be much more damaging to his campaign (you don't pi$$ of that many Marines and get away with it.. Hit him where the PROOF is the strongest and unrefuteable.
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W.P. Wily
Lt.Jg.


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some raw data from the poll:
Quote:
13. Has what you've seen or heard about John Kerry's military service
record in the Vietnam War made you more likely or less likely to vote for
him in November, or has it not had much effect either way?

BASED ON REGISTERED VOTERS

Current Military HH Non-Military HH 7/29-30/04
15 More likely 15 16 27
19 Less likely 26 15 15
62 Not much effect 55 66 55
2 Haven't heard about
/Not aware of (VOL.) 1 2 1
2 Don't know 3 1 2
100 100 100 100


14a. Have you seen or heard about the recent TV Ads sponsored by a
veterans' group questioning John Kerry's military service record in
Vietnam?

BASED ON REGISTERED VOTERS

75 Yes, seen or heard about the ads
24 No
1 Don't know
100


14b. From what you've seen or heard, do you think these ads are generally
accurate in what they say about Kerry's military service in Vietnam,
or are misleading or distorted?

BASED ON REGISTERED VOTERS


Current Military HH Non-Military HH
21 Generally accurate 26 19
39 Misleading or distorted 36 40
25 Not aware of ads 21 27
15 Don't know 17 14
100 100 100


14c. Do you think the Bush-Cheney campaign is behind these anti-Kerry
ads, or that the ads were produced independently, without the Bush-
Cheney campaign's involvement?

BASED ON REGISTERED VOTERS

Current Military HH Non-Military HH
27 Bush-Cheney campaign
behind ads 24 30
38 Produced independently 46 34
26 Not aware of ads 21 27
9 Don't know 9 9
100 100 100


I'm heartened that the numbers for #13 "more likely" have fallen considerably, but the "less likely" shows what I consider to be a very modest increase. Unfortunately, we don't have the numbers from the previous poll broken down by military/non-military.

It truly saddens me that in #14b there are still 36% of military HH that think the SBVfT ads are "Misleading or distorted" vs 26% "Generally accurate". At least 46% don't believe that the Bush campaign is behind them (#14c).
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