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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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 Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:19 am Post subject: |
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I remind everyone that most of us (myself included) didn't think the Navy would touch this flap with a ten foot pole...at least not until election season were over. The fact that they have and have admitted doing so publically means (IMHO) that:
1. The Navy thinks that Sen. Kerry is probably guilty of having a false war record. JAG doesn't make such investigations public unless they think the person is really guilty....they just don't. There is a reason why military prosecuters have such a high conviction rate....they don't prosecute unless they know they will win.
2. It pretty much shows that the Navy doesn't (seem to) care about the political impact. If they did, they could easily have made no comment until 3 November.
Given the above two facts, I expect to see more damaging revelations coming from the USN and soon. That said, we need to keep up the heat. We have fallen by the wayside a bit during this past week, and it is the Labor Day weekend, but this is no time to let Kerry regain his balance and momentum.
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Truth is Beauty |
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TruthCanHurt
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Will this force the release of all military and medical records for Kerry? When investigating these incidents? |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Truth,
A JAG/IG investigator has full access to Kerry's military record. Kerry has no Privacy Act protection on this one. If JAG finds portions of the record relevant to the case, they can use it as evidence regardless of privacy act considerations.
So basically, yes, this can force the records to become public.
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tiptie
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Colorado
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Indianbaboon
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:25 am Post subject: |
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the prosecutors will no doubt see them, i dunno if that means we get to also.
This wouldn't necesarily be the case in a civilian trial, but me no know how JAG operates...
LOL, they should do a mockumentary using the JAG TV show stars of the KErry flap. |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: |
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tiptie,
We know a bit more than that. The UK Telegraph actually did a bit of digging and confirmed that an active investigation was in progress and that the USN wants to get to the bottom of this.
Anyone that has dealt with JAG in any capacity knows, that they wouldn't have said this much unless they think Kerry is guilty.
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shamrockgreen
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:30 am Post subject: |
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I am so glad it is a current article..... |
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kaji
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| The important thing is that an official Naval investigation goes national on the news.The only thing Kerry has going for him, are the liberal medial, his few witnesses and the old standby if wasn't true, the Navy wouldn't have given him his medals and to look at the record. Now they have to explain why the Navy is looking at the record. More doubt for the American public, and a little goes a long way. |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Indianbloom,
As far as evidence goes, just because the prosecutor sees them does not automatically mean we get to see those records. The Privacy Act does extend that far. However, unless it is a closed hearing, the news would get out in a trial.....and even with a closed hearing, it would get out afterwards.
The point is that it becomes geometrically more difficult to keep those records hidden once the prosecutors get their claws into them.
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tiptie
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Polaris...........this is the time to be the "fly on the wall".
With a recorder..................
The phone calls from the Kennedy camp and the string pulling that is going on.
The pressure must be incredible. I hope someone is losing some sleep over this. Parasominia at work again.
Ya just got to love it. |
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7rrfs
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
As far as evidence goes, just because the prosecutor sees them does not automatically mean we get to see those records. The Privacy Act does extend that far. However, unless it is a closed hearing, the news would get out in a trial.....and even with a closed hearing, it would get out afterwards.
The point is that it becomes geometrically more difficult to keep those records hidden once the prosecutors get their claws into them. |
It will be now near impossible for Kerry to fall back on, "I have released all my records, just go to my website."
No John, people will come to fully realize that you havent, that only a signed SF 180 means you have.
He still wont sign, and now voters will know exactly why. This is a straight line connection. No way to spin outta this. Is there?
Damn, is this the final nail?
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"I served admirably in Vietnam" John Kerry
"Yes, I committed atrocities in Vietnam" John Kerry |
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TruthCanHurt
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| It is strange how a British news web site has this information before anyone else in our country. |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Not really. The UK Telegraph is a fairly conservative newspaper. Especially by British standards. 
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ArmyWife
Lieutenant
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: | Even if the Navy finds problems, it is unlikely they would publicize it or do anything about it before the election.
I don't look for anything but a whitewash i.e an inability to find any facts to overturn any of the awards.
It would take tremendous moral courage and certainty to overturn any of Kerry's awards even with hard evidence.
I doubt anyone involved will have that kind of courage.
Think about this...Would President Bush allow it? |
Would President Bush allow it? Very good question, indeed! Remembering back to the rocky transition between the Clinton Administration and his own, I think he would not. He set himself a precedent there.
But then again, I don't think he'd tell the Navy JAGs what to do, either. Later reports of how he prosecuted the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq seem to paint Bush as a guy that lets the military do its job without a lot of interference.
What if they go after the person or persons within the Navy that helped doctor Kerry's records, rather than Kerry, himself? You know....a more nuanced and sensitive way to handle it. That just might do it. |
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tiptie
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:45 am Post subject: |
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I love this quote from the Kerry camp.
(from the Telegraph article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/05/wus05.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/05/ixworld.html)
| Quote: | "The facts are clear," said Mr Meehan. "The navy awarded John Kerry the Silver Star, a Bronze Star with Combat V and three Purple Hearts. This is a waste of taxpayers' dollars and the Pentagon's time, especially during wartime."
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"Wasting taxpayers dollars...........especially during wartime"
This is becoming such a comedy of dumb statements.
Last edited by tiptie on Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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