SwiftVets.com

[charley]

If Kerry wants this issue to go away, all he would have to do to convince me is to show the scars to a small number of impartial doctors who could verify the extent of the scarring. This would be a simple thing to do, it could be done in privacy, and it should be something he would be happy to do to put this issue to bed. If his wounds were significant enough to have required stitches (which should be verifiable by the scarring stitches leave), and if the scars’ location and severity are consistent with the write-up for the purple heart citations, then in my opinion, the purple heart issue should be dropped.

Kerry has an opportunity to show all of us doubters that he has been truthful about the severity of the wounds. Will he take it? I'm not holding my breath.

[Billman]

There's an easier way.

Sign Standard Form 180.

It cannot be repeated enough, on this board, at Kerry rallies, in ANY letter you may send to any editor. It was a fundamental part of the Swiftees very first letter and press conference for good reason.

For any newcomers (welcome!), it's important to point out his first purple heart has NO supporting documentation on the Kerry site whatsoever. No after action report, spot report, recommendation, nothing. Lots of other documents missing also (refer to Resources board) but I like to point this one out as a stark, obvious example. SF180 would release everything.
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-- Bill in Seattle

[Mooncusser]

I'd like to see x-ray of that shrapnel in his leg.
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MACV '64...65
Thu Thua, Long An

I actually won the election before I lost it.

"It is a good day to fight! It is a good day to die! Strong hearts, brave hearts to the front! Weak hearts and cowards to the rear!" (Crazy Horse)

[GenrXr]

There are no scars for wounds which only require a band-aid. Kerry probably has worse scars from his goofy ass falling off a bicycle during his lurch growth spurt then any action he saw 'In Country' for 4 months.
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"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy

[d19thdoc]

It is beyond me how so many people cannot get the simple idea that THE WOUNDS ARE NOT THE ISSUE. Maybe it is becasue the MSM constantly makes the same "mistake" (on purpose?)

The only issue is whether or not the wounds he got were the result of HOSTILE ACTION BY AN ENEMY.

Max Cleland lost three limbs and was not entitled to, and did not receive, a Purple Heart for those injuries because they were the result of an accidental grenade explosion while no hostile action was taking place.

I have exchanged PMs on this board with a Nam Vet who received a Purple Heart for injuries sustained from falling into a foxhole - BUT IT WAS DURING AN ENEMY MORTAR BARRAGE. So he was entitled to the PH.

No matter how slight (a "scratch") or how grievous (death), the same PH is available to the woundee - provided it was as a consequence of hostile action.

Is it clear now? I hope?
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"

[charley]

[reconflyer]

It is true, the decoration is awarded when the wound is a result of enemy contact.

It is a double whammy, it was a minor wound, and it was in the absence of contact (PH 1).

A guy I knew got a PH for being in a nightclub in Germany that was terrorist bombed in the early eighties.

Some other guys I knew that were on a recon aircraft off the coast of Peru and were shot up by a Peruvian fighter because of misidentification did not receive the PH because their wounds were the cause of an "accidental misidentification". These guys were seriously injured, and one was killed. This happened in 1992.

Kerry fastballed his PH#1 after his original CO turned it down.

[Indianbaboon]

didn't he have to transfer to get the ph1 written up?

[reconflyer]

Is that what he did? I know he pushed it up a different chain of command than the original, which was turned down. And he did it post-de-facto.

[d19thdoc]

Charley,
Kerry supporters want the severity or the nature of the wounds to be the issue, because there is no doubt he was injured to some extent, by some means. By responding to their terms, we lose the argument.

They consistently mis-characterize the SBVT position, and then attack their own mis-characterization.

If a wound is documented by a medical officer, it meets the requirement. It is beside the point whether or not the nature of the wound would "require" medical treatment. The fact a medical officer treated it renders the question moot. Dr.'s offices are full of people looking for attention for minor or imaginary ailments that do not "require" medical treatmemnt, but which get medical treatment anyway, and insurers pay for it. Dr. Letson says he removed a tiny piece of shrapnel and put a band-aid on it. Letson's corpsman signed the treatment sheet. That meets the requirement.

What kind of officer would seek treatment for such a wound is another question, especially if the only reason for seeking treatment is not a valid medical resaon, but only in order to qualify for an award.

Here is a direct quote from the Intelligence Section (S-2) Daily Staff Journal of my battalion (19th Engineer Bn. C/A - 26 Oct 1967, 0820 hrs), as copied at the National Archives: "D Co CO reported a 105mm round had been command detonated in front of his South minesweep team at BS885297. Area was checked and footprints were found that led to a village. Coordinating with 3/4th Inf . . . 2 US slightly WIA (wounded in action). 1st aid treatment, not evacuated."

And some five hours later (1300), here is an entry in the Adjutant's (paperwork) Section Daily Staff Journal (S-1) for the same incident: "Learned of two casualties in D Co on minesweep. Contacted D Co for info - informed D Co that wounds regardless of severity must be reported if incurred as a result of hostile action."

These guys had not even reported their injuries - pretty standard for minor wounds. Let alone go banging on someone's desk for a medal!

Kerry does not say his wounds were more severe than the SBVT claim. He characterizes them in such a way that you get that impression - a deliberate manipulation that is technically "true." You really have to read carefully what they say, because they are skilled manipulators of words. Kerry speaks of "blood on the deck." A drop of blood on the deck is still blood on the deck. Someone else's blood on the deck is still blood on the deck. Shrapnel still in his body could be a grain of rice, and he'd still not be lying (although not telling the truth in any honorable way).

The real deal is whether or not there was enemy fire. No enemy fire, no award - doesn't matter if your ass was blown off somehow. No enemy fire and paperwork that says there was enemy fire, no award AND fraud!

Granted, the deal is also that no one with any integrity would campaign for a PH for a trivial injury - but you can't deny the injury, nor can you deny that it meets the "wounding" requirement for the award even if it is a trivial injury.

The nature of the injury is not the SBVT case. But the Kerry people want to address the nature of the injury - thus they change the subject and avoid addressing the real charge.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"

[d19thdoc]

I'm wondering now if it was Letson's corpsman who signed the medical report - or was it another corpsman who was around three months later and who reconctructed a medical report when Kerry pushed for the 3rd PH (which was actually for the first wounding).

One of the SBVT would have to answer this - maybe Letson's certainty stems from the fact that - to his knowledge - no one signed any medical treatment sheet on the 1st injury that Letson bandaided.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"

[Scott]

Letson's corpsman signed the report. Dr. Letson has gone on record to that effect to explain why the report does not have his, Dr. Letson's, signature on it.
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Bye bye, Boston Straggler!

[d19thdoc]

Roger, Scott, I have you five-by-five. Strong-Arm delta one-six, out.
_________________
For The Honor of the Fifty-Eight Thousand.
"He Can Lose, But He Can Not Hide"

[charley]

[Hammer2]