SwiftVets.com

[skbarton13]

The records on johnkerry.com include a DD214 for Kerry's transition from enlisted to officer and another for his transition from active duty to reserve duty. The revealed records strike me as inadequate for covering the remainder of his service obligation after being released from active duty to run for Congress.

But I'm no expert.

I expected, however, to see a DD214 for his final discharge from the military. Where is it? Or, can an expert tell me why/how the records shown cover that territory?

[skbarton13]

Bump. The world is full of questions, MikeSt. I'm looking for answers and illumination on this one -- please post your questions on an appropriate thread. Thanks.

[sparky]

This DD214 says at the bottom "No discharge certificate offered at time of separation" Does that work for you?

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/DD214.pdf

Anyone wanting to see Kerry's complete records, just go here:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/military_records.html

And when Bush provides things besides his dental work and other bizarre miscelleny, let me know. So far, Bush has avoided releasing any records with substance.

[sparky]

I especially want to see the documents pertaining to Bush's being grounded, other disciplinary measures, and reports from his commanders. Those released so far, intended to show he showed up in Texas, are not very glowing. His commanders were rather negative about Lt. Bush's performance.

[skbarton13]

Sparky:

No, that's not the answer but you have highlighted exactly what I think is missing.

Where is his final DD214 Report of Discharge for his period of Naval Reserve service after he left active duty?

And please, this is a thread with a specific question. Your first reply is well-appreciated as it addresses that question.

George Bush questions can be appropriately posted elsewhere for all to see. Thanks.

[sparky]

It would be nice if we could just outright ban all discussion of George Bush's service records, right? It would be even better if the media kept a lid on the embarassment of chickenhawks running our country and getting us into war.

But as long as this conference wants to portray itself in the mission statement with the claim...

[skbarton13]

Sparky:

I, too, have doubts about whether Kerry was issued another DD214. It ought to be a non-controversial document so its absence could be happenstance, not cherry-picking.

But my experience in the service leads me to believe that there ought to be one, so I'm looking for someone who is/was familiar with what the personnel system generated back in that day.

Per your comments, please document my innuendoes and smears on the threads where I am guilty. I feel safe that I am innuendo-free on this one!

Of course, Kerry's VVAW actions that got the rise out of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth occured subsequent to his DD214 of 1 Mar 1970 but prior to his discharge of his Reserve obligation -- so this question is one way of looking to see if there was any official notice of his VVAW actions put in his file that has yet to be revealed on johnkerry.com.

I don't think that is an innuendo, as again it is hitched to a seemingly reasonable expectation that another DD214 would be there.

Anyway, I again please ask you to take George Bush questions to another thread. You have questions; ask them where you'll get a response. You have political points to make; make them on a political discussion thread.

Thanks.

[sparky]

Hmmmm, I guess there isn't one posted on his web site. And your experience in the service leads you to believe there ought to be one.
But, of course, that curiously missing form, which contains who knows what, is something that is usually issued. And of course, all of this is innuendo-free.

Actually, I agree with you: this is a noncontroversial document. It would be funny if it turned out Kerry was still a member of the reserve because he'd never been formally released!

Actually, there are other documents showing his discharge from the Naval Reserve:
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Acceptance_of_Discharge_Naval_Reserve.pdf
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Honorable_Discharge_From_Reserve.pdf
He was in the "standby reserve" beginning 3/1/1972
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Transfer_To_Standby_Reserve.pdf
Here's a website discussing the same point you're discussing!
http://www.tinyvital.com/BlogArchives/000802.html

It describes a "kerry coverup" and is called "useful fools." In fact, there appears to be a cottage industry of rightwingers trying to suggest that there's something fishy about the discharge papers (but they're not denying any inuendo-mongering).

If indeed there was a second DD214 deliberately excluded from Kerry's website, what's the most embarassing thing this could mean for Kerry?

Maybe Ted Kennedy was somehow involved in some kind of funny business with Kerry's records?

[timelegend]

All this anti Bush bashing about his duty in the military. I can tell you somethings about serving in the Reserves and National Guard I have 12 yrs of service between the two and 2 years active one tour in Vietnam with a Purple Heart.

When I got out of the military in Dec of 1970 I wanted nothing to do with the military but in 1977 I decided to join the Army Reserve. Military records during that time were kept by company clerks. Most of the clerks could care less if a persons 201 file was up to date or even correct. So you can't go by military records for reserved or national guard between 1960 to 1990 as being 100% accurate based on my experiences and I spent many years in several units cleaning up 201 files and bringing them up to date received an award for doing so. I found that the average 201 file enlisted or officer was about 60% accurate and was very poor in detail. So don't bash Bush because his military records aren't A-one in quality and information.

On the issue of duty tiime again from 12 yrs of experience most reserve and national guard units never had 100% attendance during drills do to many circumstances, sickness, requested leave, occupational requirements, TDY, or make up drills for days missed. Again not all of this was kept in the 201 file. I am running for President as an Independent on the reality showtime website AmericanCandidate.com If you checked out my reserve time and national guard time you would find that I don't have records proving all my drill time, clerk errors omitted some of the data. If you ask members of the unit who I was they would probably say I don't know never saw him that is because not all members of the units drilled together. Before you bozos and media liberals try to crucify Bush's record learn how the military works and how records were kept during that time, records were hand written, typed and posted by clerks who were part-timers wanting the beer and the money but could care less about job quality, but for those who did don't get a tizzy there were a few good clerks but not enough to make a difference.

Compare this web site Kerry's military service is dire upheavel by men he served with....a testimony to who he really is. I noticed in the photos on Kerrys TV ads he is off the right all by himself alienated from the others I told my girlfriend even before I knew of this website that Kerry was not liked by the men he served just by seeing that picture......

Give one to Bush I have yet seen anyone who served with bush do a press conference to give negative feed back.

Any way Im tired of people in the press writing about military service but have no clue how the system works. Medals are earned but some are given away for favors, why does a private standing next to an Officer get a lesser award for doing the same darn thing military politics. I knew clerks in Nam who would sell medals to those who would pay...I ve seen enlisted NCOs and Officers give buddies medals.....not much you can do about the system its the way its worked since armies were put together.

John Kerry with his 3 Purple Hearts and Silver Star is not the hero of the Vietnam War it is the names on the Wall, the ones without limbs and family members who lost loved ones that are the true heros.

Hell if Kerry is a hero with those medals than my Purple Heart, ArmyCommendation, Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry and Vietnam Campaign with 3 Bronze Stars should make me a hero too but I am not I am just a soldier who did his duty my heros are mentioned above.

Dennis Sheppard
_________________
D.Sheppard
MACV-IV Corps
Vinh Long Air Field 69-70

[colmurph]

[colmurph]