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Kerry Exhumes Bush MIA Story - Kelley (AP)
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Scipio
Seaman Recruit


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found it interesting that the AP reporter quotes the AP lawyer about the "missing documents."

Could be innocuous.
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oasis
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 201
Location: Florida, want some sun? LoL!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: Here we go again Reply with quote

rhv5862 wrote:
Does this surprise anyone. I think we will see a lot more of this as 2 Nov 2004 gets closer. Presidents records have been reviewed by every MSM outlet months ago and what did they find. Nothing thats why they have not pushed this line for months. Some in the media are going to do anything they think will get Kerry elected.

RHV


Hello,

What he said
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Stevie
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
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Location: Queen Creek, Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh here we go again.... these reporters don't do their homework anyway....

I'll believe this Wm Campenni guy.... he seems to know what he is talking about.... don't know where I got this article but it was just last week... other headlines that day were about the Russian school terrorists.

Answering Kerry's questions


By William Campenni
The recent actions by the swift boat veterans have triggered a vicious reaction by the Kerry campaign against the service of President Bush in the Air National Guard. To be candid, the Bush campaign has done a poor job in countering the attacks, thereby aiding their longevity.
While Mr. Bush has only offered praise for John Kerry's service to the country, Mr. Kerry has personally questioned Mr. Bush's dedicated service and specifically slandered all of those who have served in the Guard, equating it with fleeing to Canada.

The Kerry campaign has posted these "Unanswered Questions" on its Web site since April, providing sustenance to the anti-Bush pundits and Web dialogs.
While the allegations against Mr. Bush are numerous, let's limit ourselves to these questions because they have Mr. Kerry's imprimatur.

1. Mr. Bush used special treatment to jump ahead of 150 applicants into the Guard. Further, he used influence to get a direct commission rather than go to Officer Candidate School.
There may have been 150 or more applicants for all positions in Mr. Bush's unit. For pilot slots, however, the pool was much smaller, probably never more than 10, because of the stringent physical and educational criteria. It is possible that some influence was applied at the margins, like who got which of two yearly slots first, but that's life. It is ironic that the media is hypocritically worked up on this fact of life, given William McGowan's study on the nepotism for the children of media biggies in their own profession.
Also, political influence did not get Mr. Bush a special direct commission to lieutenant. The direct commission was the normal procedure for those selected for a pilot slot. Every pilot candidate got one. I did, too. It was contingent upon completion of the year-long pilot training. If you washed out, you reverted to enlisted status. And once you were in pilot training, all the political influence in the world wouldn't make those instructors pass a guy who couldn't hack it.
2. Col. Albert Lloyd, Texas Guard personnel officer, said a report on Mr. Bush's Alabama service should have been filed.
3. Why hasn't Mr. Bush proved he showed up in Alabama?
With due respect to Col. Lloyd, who might be shocked by this, that's not really the way it worked with pilots. Operations, the flying part of a Guard organization, works out many deals with other units on an informal basis. Mr. Bush's "pulling drills" in Alabama would be an agreement between units' Operations people.
There may be a letter to authorize the out-of-state drills, as Mr. Bush had, but no formal transfer to the other unit, hence no other paperwork. In Alabama someone would be delegated to verify attendance, using a Form 105 punch card. These would be sent back to Texas for pay and then destroyed after a few years. Three witnesses have verified Mr. Bush's presence in Alabama: a dentist, a flight surgeon and a safety officer, William Calhoun. As a commander, I had probably 10 "visitors" from other units whose Form 105s I signed, but I never wrote any other reports. My visitors worked in a 6x10 plans office. Nobody saw them. If they didn't show up, I usually didn't care.
4. Why did Mr. Bush miss his medical examination in 1972?
5. Why was there no investigation?
It would be best to ask him; however, it is not uncommon to miss a physical in a Reserve unit. The clinics are not open every day. The ad-libbing White House spokesman further confused the issue by commenting that Mr. Bush had to go back to Houston to see his family physician, which was in error. A guess — Lt. Bush had decided that with the changing fortunes at the unit, downsizing, a conversion to new airplanes, a glut of pilots, it was time to pull the plug. Flying physicals are like driver's licenses — when they expire, you aren't allowed to fly, or drive. They don't throw you in jail. Investigations are a commander's prerogative, not a mandate, and entail considerable time and resources. You don't undertake them when a simpler option is present.
Most amusing are the charges that he wanted to avoid a drug test. Formal drug testing in the Guard did not start until 1981, and his records prove Mr. Bush was never subject to the Human Reliability (nuclear weapons safety) program. Sorry, guys.
6. Why did Mr. Bush specifically request not to be sent overseas for duty?
A non-issue. The form that this canard references is AF Form 125, Application for Extended Active Duty (EAD). It is a required form for every Air Force officer's personnel folder. However, it does not apply to reservists and guardsman unless and until ordered to extended active duty. Most guardsmen, like Lt. Bush and me, were told by personnel clerks to check off the "not volunteer" block because it was meaningless. We had to fill out the form to go to pilot training because that year was EAD, but the all training bases were in the United States. In the Guard, you are the property of that unit and state. You aren't going anywhere except where your unit goes.
7. Why does Mr. Bush say he was on base when his superiors filled out a report saying he was gone a whole year?
First, pay records document Mr. Bush's appearances on base, as verified by Col. Lloyd and Mr. Bush's point credit statement. So why would these other reports be at variance? They are not. Regulations require that an Officer Efficiency Report (OER, now an OES) be completed annually by their reporting official, or whenever there is a change of reporting official of 90 days or more. They evaluate performance. They don't document attendance. "Not Observed" is an Air Force term of art, meaning "I didn't have this guy for more than 90 days, so I can't evaluate him." If you were there 73 days, the reporting official would have to check "not observed," even if he had lunch with you daily. With this criterion, Alabama officials would not report on you, and with six months away in the middle of the year, probably neither would the Houston officials. Sadly, the corroborating officials are now deceased.
George Bush did request an early out from his enlistment contract and got it, legally and honorably. Little noted in the debate is that John Kerry also signed a contract to serve two more years (1970-72) in the drilling reserves after his active duty tour. There is no letter of excusal or record of attendance at these drills while he was at the peak of his antiwar activities. With Kerry friends like Sen. J. William Fulbright in the Senate, the Navy was never going to enforce that obligation.
8. Why is the Pentagon under orders not to discuss Mr. Bush's records with reporters?
This is standard procedure with all high-profile personnel or media events. It is to provide a single point of contact and prevent rumor or inaccurate information from people who don't have the whole picture. It is a practice the civil world could benefit from, given the confused stories like the TWA Flight 800 crash.
9. Where are Mr. Bush's flight logs?
National Personnel Records Center, 9700 Page Ave, St. Louis, Mo. 63132-5100.
Remember, over the term of the Vietnam War, 8.7 million served on active duty, of which 2.7 million served in Vietnam and surrounding waters and airspace. Thus 6 million never got near the theater of operations. This 69 percent of the active-duty force were sitting in missile silos, in submarines and ships, at airfields in England, at Army bases in Germany and on Coast Guard cutters in Alaska. Nobody questions their service. Another 2 million were in the Reserve forces, waiting for a call that for most did not come.
Hindsight is perfect, but in the late 1960s, the future course of the war was not so clear. No matter what your recruiter told you, when you donned a uniform in 1965 through 1973, you did not have a clue as to where fortune would take you and what risks you would face. A gung-ho Ranger might find himself in a safe instructor slot in Germany; a Coast Guardsman would find himself dodging mines in the China Sea; an Air National Guard pilot in Sioux City would be dropping bombs in Vietnam. Life was neither fair nor foreseeable. Someone in Saigon would safely serve in a rear-echelon staff job, while another in North Dakota would die a fiery death in the crash of an Air National Guard jet.
But the hated George Bush was in the National Guard, so it must be that those in the National Guard were draft dodgers and cowards.
We who served in the Guard in that era are proud of our service. Even with obsolescent equipment and condescending attitudes from the regular forces, we were ready to go. Many a guardsman volunteered for Vietnam, but were turned down for often petty reasons, or offered pointless assignments far from the war zone. As verified by at least three witnesses, George Bush was one of those Vietnam volunteers.
A final comment: With a single phone call, Mr. Bush could round up a flight of wingmen to follow him around as his "Band of Brothers." Choosing not to exploit his squadron mates is indicative of his character and class. Poet and wartime pilot Antoine de Saint-Exupery wrote in "Night Flight" that "Like his love, a man keeps his courage dark."
John Kerry should read it in the original French.

William Campenni is a retired colonel in the United States Air Force/Air National Guard.
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jrsdad
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me#1You#10 wrote:
LOL. "Some veterans". The Grey Lady won't even PRINT the name Swift Boat Veterans For Truth


I was just giving a Navy SEAL friend the link to Harley's .mov file of "B1" Bob Dornan's excellent performance on H&C when I noticed Colmes' pronunciation:

"Swift boat Veterans for ... 'Truth'."

You could hear the pause and the "scare quotes." And there was small-town editor Randy Patrick who talked about the "Orwellian" name of the group.

Message for the left - "truth" is not a bad word. It is also not defined as "anything I say or believe."

The Kerry campaign has a problem with the SBVFT name because the concept of honor and truth unrelated to personal gain is unfathomable to them. The "truth" is whatever you need to say to win.

This is what confounds them about the SBVFT, and why they will not prevail. They think that somehow if Bush were to say "Please stop" that the SBVFT ads would stop. They think if they pressure one donor (Perry) they will pressure others. Good luck setting up 40,000 pickets, Quick John! They look for some connections, some personal reasons for the passion of the SBVFT. Since they do not understand "honor" as anything other than campaign rhetoric, they cannot understand how it is the cornerstone of the truly valiant.

Kerry cannot understand why people are upset over his VVAW activities because to him it was political theater. By his reasoning, you don't hate Dean Cain for playing Scott Peterson, you don't hate Anthony Hopkins for playing Hannibal Lecter. John O'Neill cites this as one of the revelations of the Cavett debate - he went in thinking Kerry was a passionate albeit misguided zealot, and came away realizing he was a coldly-calculating political opportunist.

There are many, many stories and ads to be told in the next few months. Some pundits think the Swift issue will die out, but the Republicans have seen how powerful this message is and the money will flow. After a year of being beaten up by Democrat 527s, movies like Fahrenheit 9/11, and the dozens of Bush-bashing books, Republicans are seeing that they can fight back. A number of other 527s will be airing harsh moveon-type ads, but the Swift vets will remain on message.

Think of the SBVFT as The Magnificent 240. The people of America had given up hope after the depredations of the liberal media, 527 ads, books and movies. Along comes Hoffmann, O'Neill and company, and the townpeople learn they can defend themselves.

By airing variations of the same message, they will plant the seeds of doubt in even the most ardent Bush-haters. How many people, on 2 November, will enter the booth, think of their children, and vote for Bush?

The SBVFT own Kerry's character now. To date, the MSM has pretty much burried the three concessions of the Kerry camp, but more will surely follow. Just as the AP got manhandled on Boogate by the blogosphere (which is really coming into its own as a media factor), so the MSM will reach a point where they have to report on what is a cultural phenomenon. Once they sense Kerry is a goner, they will start to tear into him.

Kerry is supposed to be a strong closer, but as noted here, he has been playing a lopsided game, using his one strong suit (Vietnam) against non-vet opponents. Today, he is being pummeled by vets on one side and a sitting President who has a record as a war President. People know George Bush after 5 years of scrutiny. They are getting to know Kerry - and the SBVFT have led the charge.

Media statements that the SBVFT have had their impact are wishful thinking. There is enough meat in the SBVFT charges to keep this message going for 2 months.

Once again, the veterans are serving their nation fully aware of the cost. Their words and actions today, as well as the lives they have lived since Vietnam, give the lie to all of Kerry's drawling Senate testimony.

John O'Neill and the Swift Vets - along with so many others, veterans and non-vets - share the love of their nation embodied in Daniel Webster. We are so oriented toward partisan politics that we sometimes overlook that love of country - and the courage to act and speak from that love - makes no compromise for political or pecuniary gain.

Quote:
And they say that if you go to his grave and speak loud and clear, 'Dan'l Webster--Dan'l Webster!' the ground'll begin to shiver and the trees begin to shake. And after a while you'll hear a deep voice saying. 'Neighbor, how stands the Union?' Then you better answer the Union stands as she stood, rock-bottomed and copper-sheathed, one and indivisible, or he's liable to rear right out of the ground.
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Chuck Z Ombie AC2000
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're just rehashing these old stories to remind the uncertain ABBs why they hate Bush . The Kerry Kampf hope it will lead their lost little sheep back home.
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LewWaters
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing about all this Bush was AWOL stuff, it still doesn't place Kerry in Camobodia in Christmas Eve 1968 while Nixon was telling the country no troops were there. LOL, it still doesn't even make Nixon the Presidnet before January 20, 1969 Laughing

Don't be sidetracked by the Bush stuff. Not one accusation answers anything that has been said about Kerry. Whether Bush was there or not, it doesn't make the atrocities Kerry uttered true nor does it make him to have not visited the enemy in Paris.
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rb325th
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lew, don't destroy the MSMs Plan here!! Distract, Distract, Distract!!
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farmgirl
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Boxford, MA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: Here we go again Reply with quote

rhv5862 wrote:
Does this surprise anyone. I think we will see a lot more of this as 2 Nov 2004 gets closer. Presidents records have been reviewed by every MSM outlet months ago and what did they find. Nothing thats why they have not pushed this line for months. Some in the media are going to do anything they think will get Kerry elected.

RHV


I totally agree. Remember the Tuesday before Election and Bush's drunk driving record of what? 25 years or 30 years ago and the press made it the biggest story! I am nervous about the press because I think they like to "make" a good race by reporting stories that are not news and making them news due to their own agenda. I mean, look at Dean's scream when they wanted him out. I disagree with everything Dean stands for but he got screwed. The press, I feel, is just waiting for Bush to peak so they can enjoy taking him down. What a sad world we live in and this isnt' communism? Pretty dam pathetic. ...thank god this election now has Fox News which will report the truth. We need more conservative weathly people to buy television studios and publishing newspapers Smile
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producehawk
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Kelley is really a door mat for the kerry campain. I'd wipe my feet on him but he's to dirty.
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Chuck Z Ombie AC2000
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont thank god for fox news just yet, they are one of the ones carrying this bush awol story
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131510,00.html
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ASPB
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Z Ombie AC2000 wrote:
Dont thank god for fox news just yet, they are one of the ones carrying this bush awol story
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131510,00.html


It's news! If they didn't report it they'd be accusued of bias! What matters is the analytical or editorial content of the piece; and yes, we have to parse the language if we really want to understand.
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Integrity
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another key factor countering the LSM (lame stream media) is the bloggers. Look how fast AP has gotten called on the carpet over the booing story and the Schwarzenegger story. Anything really bogus will be immediately countered and the media will have more egg on their faces.

By the way, Fox always picks up AP feeds. If it's written by one of their reporters fine, but don't bother with Foxnews.com for your news, it's worthless.
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Integrity
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather off topic but best article I've read responding to this clap trap

http://www.al.com/opinion/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1093770964297240.xml
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212351st
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Joined: 06 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me#1You#10 wrote:
Well, as long as we're entertaining Mr. Matt Kelley, AP, let's take a peek at his past reportage.

http://news.google.com/news?q=Matt%20Kelley%20AP&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn



Here's some more:

http://www.why-war.com/news/author.php?name=Matt+Kelley

http://www.independent-media.tv/group.cfm?ffield=media_producer&fvalue=Matt%20Kelley

The guy is a liberal hack.

First time poster.

Cheers,
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The Balloon Artist
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerry: I'm tired of talking about Vietnam, Say did I mention
I won 3 purple hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star,
By the way where was George? Did you know he was AWOL.

Any of this sound familar?
I can still hear Ann Richards "Whar wuz Geeorge"?

He wants us to quit talking about Vietnam, but he's the guy who brought it up to begin with and continues to do so.

His Heroism and Bush' s alledged, supposed, investigated, ad infinum ad nauseum AWOL are the only things that have gotten any traction in the press by him. It's the only message he's got.

Why is he still discussing "RED MEAT" hate for Bush messages that are only for liberals?

This is the stuff of Primaries. This the stuff to get the "base" out. He should be reaching to the middle of America not the left fringe.

He is losing his base. They smell a loser and a rat. I would venture to guess that donations are drying up at this point for him and his 527s.

They have all spent fortunes and now may be down by 15 points.

Kerry is trying to find his base. This may prove difficult for one who has no foundations of his own.
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What about John Kerry's four months in Vietnam qualify him to be president?
Al Gore was there for five.
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