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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:55 am Post subject: |
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What about Gen. Patton?
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Ubermensch
Former Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | What about Gen. Patton? |
What about him? He died in a car accident. |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ubermensch wrote: | | Scott wrote: | | How many U.S. troops did die in the occupation of Germany? |
None that can be substantiated. |
He died in a car accident "in the occupation of Germany."
So that's one that can be substantiated. Please note, my question didn't specify the manner of death. Not all miltary personnel that die in the line of duty are killed in action. The question of whether post-war Iraq is a tragic situation cannot be established simply by counting bodies. The benefits have to be weighed along with the costs. A better comparison with post-WWII Germany would be to acknowledge that it is far too early, yet, to judge the success of the Coalition's effort to establish a stable, viable, representative government in Iraq.
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I have a problem with the media using the word milestone in relation to the 1000th death in Iraq. The definition of milestone as stated on dictionary.com is "An important event, as in a person's career, the history of a nation, or the advancement of knowledge in a field; a turning point."
Lets assume they mean this to be a important event in the history of our nation. Well we would then have to assume also that the Iraq war is seperate from the war in afghanistan. If we include the deaths of servicemen from afghanistan we reached 1000 long ago. So if we exclude those deaths in afghanistan then the war in iraq is a totally new seperate war. In essence the President of the United States is not fighting World War IV as Norman Podhoretz would have us understand, rather we are fighting seperate wars which the communist left within the democratic party and the MSM lead us to believe. The communists understand we had to fight the first battle to appease the demands of the reactionary public, but anything further is off-limits. To continue to dismantle the radicals around the world would only enhance Americas image to future generations to the discredit of the moral relativist left.
Please remember the numbers are not ever to be used for political gain. These are human beings and the number while important for historical relevance is not important while we are at war.
I would like for a politician on the left or one of these communist propoganda (to be fair fox news is using the word milestone also, but part of the problem is our news people are not educated) politicians to look a father, mother, or wife who lost someone in the Afghanistan campaign and explain to them why they are so quickly and easily forgotten.
"well Mrs. John Doe, your husband died in Afghanistan but we had to support that war to our disgust and quite frankly we would now like to forget about him and concentrate on our destruction of the current CIC and his campaign in Iraq...Have a nice day!."
Will not happen.
Keep in mind everyone we are fighting communists as well as terrorists. We have people within the democratic party and MSM which mean our country harm and use propaganda to achieve their means.
'Milestone' was intended for a specific purpose and we must be vigilant of their use of our languge to hurt us.
edit: One additional point In world war II we didn't have a seperate ongoing count for those who died in Italy, Japan, Africa, & Europe and at the end of the world divide them by the different campaigns. We acknowledged we were at war which we better wake up and realize soon as a nation or the communist/moral relativist left will have their way with us.
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"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy
Last edited by GenrXr on Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:51 am; edited 6 times in total |
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Ubermensch
Former Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | Ubermensch wrote: | | Scott wrote: | | How many U.S. troops did die in the occupation of Germany? |
None that can be substantiated. |
He died in a car accident "in the occupation of Germany."
So that's one that can be substantiated. Please note, my question didn't specify the manner of death.
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(Deleted by admin) The topic here is specifically deaths due to those that are hostile to the occupation, an attempted comparison between the German occupation and the Iraq one. Patton did not die due to enemy fire, so your attempt at a point does not work here. Pls stay on topic.
Admin note: That's #2 Uber. 3's a charm
Admin note:Uber is a re-incarnation of a previously banned member. We wish him well (again) in his travels |
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Scott
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1603
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Please answer the questions as they're asked. You called out a member on his post; don't weasel out of your own. I also wrote:
| Quote: | | Not all miltary personnel that die in the line of duty are killed in action. The question of whether post-war Iraq is a tragic situation cannot be established simply by counting bodies. The benefits have to be weighed along with the costs. A better comparison with post-WWII Germany would be to acknowledge that it is far too early, yet, to judge the success of the Coalition's effort to establish a stable, viable, representative government in Iraq. |
And you conveniently ignored it. You can't claim that zero U.S. casualties in post-WWII Germany indicates anything about the current casualties in Iraq.
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Scott said | Quote: | | So that's one that can be substantiated. Please note, my question didn't specify the manner of death. Not all miltary personnel that die in the line of duty are killed in action. The question of whether post-war Iraq is a tragic situation cannot be established simply by counting bodies. The benefits have to be weighed along with the costs. A better comparison with post-WWII Germany would be to acknowledge that it is far too early, yet, to judge the success of the Coalition's effort to establish a stable, viable, representative government in Iraq. |
Very well said Scott and concur. Everyone should read my post a few spots up on my postion concerning this count.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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B52vet
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:48 am Post subject: |
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As a point of clarification, I understand the 1,000 number is from all causes. Not only KIAs, but heart attacks, accidents, suicides, etc. The KIA number alone is just over 700.
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"Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it." - Abraham Lincoln's Cooper Institute Address, February 27, 1860. |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| B52vet wrote: | | As a point of clarification, I understand the 1,000 number is from all causes. Not only KIAs, but heart attacks, accidents, suicides, etc. The KIA number alone is just over 700. |
That number is deaths in Iraq and does not speak of the overall war. Go meet a woman who lost her son in afghanistan and talk political talking point numbers. Read my above post on this. Where are the warriors?
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy
Last edited by GenrXr on Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Sorry B-52vet misread your post.  Its just that I am passionate about protecting the memories of those that died in afghanistan for our freedom and the fact that we are fighting a world war IV, which will not end within the near future.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Everyone,
I did not pull the 20,000 out of my posterior. I did hear it, but I will try to track it down for more specifics. I admit I should have done so before I posted it.
Edit: Still trying to track down an exact casualty figure for post-War Germany, but the fact is that Post-War Germany was if anything worse than Iraq today. See this link for details:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1373/is_10_50/ai_66157021
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-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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GenrXr
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 1720
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Polaris wrote: | Everyone,
I did not pull the 20,000 out of my posterior. I did hear it, but I will try to track it down for more specifics. I admit I should have done so before I posted it.
Edit: Still trying to track down an exact casualty figure for post-War Germany, but the fact is that Post-War Germany was if anything worse than Iraq today. See this link for details:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1373/is_10_50/ai_66157021 |
Polaris, although I am sure a lot of people died during this period of German reconstitution a simple fact must be made. We were fighting an honorable enemy against Germany as compared to modern day terrorism. If you read Desmond Young's 'The Desert Rat' biography on Rommel it points out clearly how Rommel ignored Hitlers orders to execute POW's on the German retreat from Africa. Rommel instead gave them water and sent them on their way. Also, Rommel being the most prolific warrior writer the world has ever known gave us great insight into the way in which that war took place and the honor and duty a soldier faces and commits. See Germany was devided by a political poletariat hate the upper class and a military in love with the motherland with no concern with politics. Hitler used this to his advantage. Imagine America today drawn into a war which we were wrong to engage, yet the military still adhered to. This is how the communist democratic party would portray us. The democrats use the propoganda of old to destroy us from within and we must remain absolute in that we support our troops and our mission is a just cause.
I am going to quote something from 'The Rommel Papers' p. 429
There was, at that time, a great propoganda drive going on all over Germany to persuade young men to opt for the Waffen-S.S. rather then the army. Brightly colored placards blazed out on every street corner. It was well Known that the S.S. troops were far better equipped then the army, and they had a more handsome uniform. So one day I (Rommel's son Manfred speaking) decided to opt for the Waffen-S.S. and told my father of my decision in order to get his consent.
He reacted strongly. "That's out of the question," he said. "You'll join the same force as I've served in over thirty years."
My father normally used to leave me a great deal of freedom in matters of this kind, and so I began to argue my point of view. But this time he cut me short. While, he said, he perfectly well recognized the quality of the S.S. troops, under no circumstances did he want me to be under the command of a man who, according to his information, was carrying out mass killings.
"Do you mean Himmler?" I asked.
"Yes," he answered, and instructed me to maintain absolute silence about the whole affair. The war was not going at all well and he had heard that people like Himmler were trying, by actions of this kind, to burn the bridges of the German people behind them.
The German political machine was pure evil and Rommel began to see it, yet he held out hope till the end he could serve his motherland. We need to always be on guard for fanatical communists on the left as Rommel was for his son. Sad rommel realized soo late in the war the evil that had gripped his great country.
But make no mistake the evil we face today is even worse. A fanatical people bent on killing everyone in the world who does not adhere to their radical muslim ideology. We face the greatest threat our country ever has.
_________________
"An activist is the person who cleans up the water, not the one claiming its dirty."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797), Founder of Conservative Philosophy |
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Polaris
Rear Admiral
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:15 am Post subject: |
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GenXr,
I think you are completely misinterpreting what I have posted. I admit here and now that getting those occupation casualty figures is turning out to be fightfully maddening.
However, to make my point, I would have pointed to Union Army deaths in the Reconstruction (post US Civil War Era).
The point is that by any historical standard, our casualties are ridiculously low and it is high time that people remembered that. By that I am not diminishing the threat we face one whit, and my personal feeling is that any casualty is one too many. I also point out that it is the Libs who are screaming about casualty numbers (which I find peverse) so that means we need to shove it back into their faces.
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-Polaris
Truth is Beauty |
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DEL
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:48 am Post subject: |
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The libs and Kerry sent the message to the people of S.E. Asia that their freedom wasn't worth fighting for. Today they send the same message to the Arab people.
It seems only Europeans are worthy of freedom. We wonder why terrorists try to destroy us.
MY GOD PEOPLE WAKE UP! |
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oasis
Lieutenant
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 201
Location: Florida, want some sun? LoL!
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