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EODARMY
Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 168
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 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:17 pm Post subject: Further Analysis Of Kerry's Medals - CaptainsQuarters |
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Further Analysis Of Kerry's Medals
Below link from the blog, Captain's Quarters (CQ); provides additional analysis and information concerning these medals from CQ readers Bandit and Tom "River Rat" Mortenson. Please read:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/002447.php#more |
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buffman
LCDR
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome dude, do you think the Navy investigation is going to deal with this aspect of the awards or are they looking at the V and how it got there?
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Never Ever Give Up
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EODARMY
Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:53 pm Post subject: Coastal Division 11 Command History |
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Both Sen. Kerry's Casualty Report and Bronze Star citation make it clear that he suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks from a mine that had detonated close aboard PCF-94. It is this same mine that allegedly knocked Jim Rassman off the boat. However, Kerry's Bronze Star recommendation makes no mention of Kerry receiving a shrapnel wound to his buttocks, only a bruise to his arm.
In Coastal Division 11 Command History only one mine is mentioned and not three. Hand written notation on Sen. Kerry's spot report says "HF encountered plus MINE." It would seem a few had reason to believe there was only one mine involved and not the three Sen. Kerry describes. |
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jack white
Seaman
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| Bandit and Rat did excellent work here. If this could be forwarded to all the military affairs reporters for major news outlets it would have an impact. Unfortunately, in addition to descending into partisan hackery, the MSM doesn't have that many competent military reporters any longer...oddly, though he was somewhat hostile, this should get into the hands of Michael Dobbs at WaPo, who did some good reporting on the Bronze Star incident. |
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EODARMY
Seaman
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:38 am Post subject: Best read |
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| The best read on the subject I've read plus additional information to support the position of the Swiftees. |
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NavyChief
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 627
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Further Analysis Of Kerry's Medals - CaptainsQuarters |
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| Quote: | | Analysis: The Kerry for President Campaign has released a few official spot reports that were prepared and sent out by LTJG Kerry himself after he had returned from the March 13, 1969. |
Actually, Kerry never sent any of the official spot reports listed on his website. His write ups were inputted by Radiomen and then they formatted the message and sent it out. My newest thoughts on this are that these reports are actual resends of messages Kerry would have sent from PCF-94 and not CTE 194.5.4.4. I've also have actual forms that were filled out by OINCs and/or Medical for the Personnel Casualty Reports. These forms were then translated into message format and sent with follow ups for service jackets and formal letters to CNO's office for input to Official Records. As far as the Damage Reports, I haven't seen yet if those were also formatted forms to fill out prior to transmitting a message. Nor do I know if the OINC was involved in drafting the forms/messages for that. I would assume so, but not definite.
| Quote: | | We know it was Sen. Kerry who prepared the spot reports because he was the officer in charge of the four boat TE (Task Element.) Looking at the spot report we find the line that is responsible for the contents: "MARKET TIME SPOT REPORT 13/1/TE 194.5.4.4/1." |
I'm reviewing this again, in light of the documents now in my possession. It would appear that the /1 does not equate to the boat number/designator within the boat group. It appears this number equates to the mission number of the day for that unit. The 1 after the 13 is the number of reports in this reporting series. With this analysis, it is difficult at best to guarantee that the CTE 194.5.4.4 equates to Kerry. I've seen CTE 194.5.4.3, where PCF-6 was the originator of the message. Does this mean that .3 equates to 3rd boat group? Or does it equate to PCF-6 specifically? Or does it equate to one of the other Divisions under COSRON 1?
| Quote: | | The 194.5.4.4/1 identifies the officer in charge of the four boat TE, which would had been LTJG Kerry, who also would have been responsible for all the after-action reporting. |
This wasn't true after all for the 13 Mar 69 action. LTjg Thurlow was the OTC for this mission, not Kerry. It doesn't mean Thurlow wrote it -- he said he didn't. Obviously looking at the report we can deduce that Kerry's influence in this report is clear; all action revolves around him.
| Quote: | | It has been mistakenly reported that the initials "JKW" at the bottom of some of the spot reports was evidence that Sen. Kerry was the author. This is false, it is just the initials of who ever had received the report at An Thoi, which in this particular case it was "JKW" who was on duty at the time LTJG Kerry was sending in his spot reports. |
This is a small point but might confuse some. The initials in the Time of Receipt line are KJW. There are four CWO's throughout this period whose initials appear in the TOR lines: KJW, RAP, PDJ, and WAS. Looking at the time they sign off on these reports reveals a watch schedule of 12 on -- 12 off. Standard Navy watchstanding. I'm not convinced that these CWO's were at An Thoi because of the handwriting on the reports themselves. I am leaning towards these CWO's being at Saigon (COMNAVFORV). I have no idea how large the comms center was at Saigon, but four CWO's are used. The time it took for them to enter a TOR line on these messages, suggests Saigon. The other commands who would have received these messages would have surely gotten them faster than this. Additionally, the variety of initials prior to the CWO's suggests a larger group of people working there. Thus, we can deduce enlisted personnel.
| Quote: | CTE command structure works out like this:
CTE 194 = Zumwalt
CTE 194.5 = Hoffman
CTE 194.5.4 = Lonsdale
CTE 194.5.4.4 = Elliott
CTE 194.5.4.4/1 = Kerry because he had Tactical Command of the boats. |
Of note, it appears that the CTE structure was used for the SEALORDS operations. The PCFs involved were certainly still part of MARKET TIME patrols. A gradual realization of the types of messages being sent leads me to believe that CTE was SEALORDS operations and the CTU, CTG, and CTF were reserved for MARKET TIME. I believe MARKET TIME included both administrative and operational purposes.
My take anyway on the posting at Captain's Quarters. I don't know if the information used there was in part due to my previous analysis (credit was given to Bandit and Tom Mortensen), but I apologize if it was. I am learning more and more as I look at this traffic and the newer traffic I received.
- instigator
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Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work? |
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Dragoro
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 122
Location: Michigan
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WalterW
Ensign
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 74
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:42 am Post subject: |
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"We do not need to divide America over who served and how. I have personally always believed that many served in many different ways." John F. Kerry, February, 1992 |
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ISHMAEL
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:30 am Post subject: Moy Contribution |
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Some photoshoping I did tonight 
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The Balloon Artist
PO3
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 262
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Kerry would make Baron Von Munchausen blush.
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What about John Kerry's four months in Vietnam qualify him to be president?
Al Gore was there for five. |
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