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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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coolhand wrote: | Just to play devil's advocate, are we giving this lame story legs? This is at least the third time the Dems brought up Bush's guard service and it never really hurt him. Nobody cares. They hardly did in 2000. What's new? - a couple of memos. Unlike the Swift ads, people aren't learning anything new about W. They know him, how will will act as a commander in chief, and how he will be respected as a commander in chief. He's been vetted, pilloried and slandered for years now. The Swiftee's have an impact because the Dems and big media sold the public a false bill of goods on Kerry. The Swift ads resonated because people learned stuff about Kerry they never knew. If I was Karl Rove, I wouldnt be losing any sleep over this stuff, but if everybody claims forgery without the claims being legally or professionally substantiated beyond doubt, are we giving this nothing story the legs it needs to hang around when it may just fade away? Just a thought.
I do think all this should be verified and CBS should held accountable. I also think they everytime someone bring up Bush's guard service, it is everybody's duty to bring up Kerry's service. It will hurt him more than Bush. If this is going to be big. EVERY pundit, talking head, editorialist, should link it with Kerry. In the end the will end up hurting Kerry more than Bush. |
Jeez! a curmudgeon in every group!
You might want to take the time to read the entire thread which will tell you that "professionally" the result is >90% that the documents are fake. _________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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integritycounts Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 667
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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CBS News denies
Bush docs forged
Experts suspect damning '70s memos created with modern word processor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 9, 2004
5:00 p.m. Eastern
By Art Moore
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40376
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Amid questions raised on Internet weblogs about the authenticity of National Guard documents potentially damaging to President Bush, CBS News told WorldNetDaily it stands by its claims.
Spokeswoman Kelli Edwards said she was aware of the charge that the documents, purportedly produced in 1972 and 1973, appear to have been forged with a modern word processor.
"As is standard practice at CBS News, each of the documents broadcast on '60 Minutes' was thoroughly investigated by independent experts, and we are convinced of their authenticity," said Edwards.
Edwards refused to comment further, referring back to her statement as the final word.
Later, however, she sent an e-mail to WND, adding, "CBS verified the authenticity of the documents by talking to individuals who had seen the documents at the time they were written. These individuals were close associates of [Bush commander] Colonel Jerry Killian and confirm that the documents reflect his opinions at the time the documents were written."
A White House spokesman did not immediately return a call seeking comment.
CBS News has a copy of a memo here in pdf format.
Among the assertions "60 Minutes II" derived from the documents were that Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, Col. Killian, was pressed to embellish a performance evaluation and that Bush did not follow an order to report for a physical.
The White House distributed copies of the memos, apparently dampening speculation they are fraudulent. But the copies are from faxes sent by CBS News yesterday.
The Drudge Report gave the forgery allegation wide play with a link to a story by CNSNews.com.
National Review's "Kerry Spot" weblog cited Bruce Webster, an expert witness in U.S. District Court cases on computer document forensics, who wrote the memo posted online by CBS News "has all sorts of problems ... . The typefaces weren't available on typewriters in 1973."
A reader of the weblog Powerline said the document appears to use superscript 'th,' but there "are no keys on any typewriter in common use in 1973 which could produce a tiny "th." The forger got careless after creating the August 1, 1972 document and slipped up big-time."
A number of Web contributors said they could create an exact representation of the document using Microsoft Word.
The author of the weblog Little Green Footballs wrote: "I opened Microsoft Word, set the font to Microsoft's Times New Roman, tabbed over to the default tab stop to enter the date '18 August 1973,' then typed the rest of the document purportedly from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian. And my Microsoft Word version, typed in 2004, is an exact match for the documents trumpeted by CBS News as 'authentic.'"
'Previously unseen'
"60 Minutes II" reported last night it had "previously unseen documents" from Killian's personal office file.
In a memo dated May 1972, Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."
The docment says Lt. Bush told his commander "he is working on a campaign in Alabama ... and may not have time to take his physical." Killian adds that he thinks Bush has gone over his head, and is "talking to someone upstairs."
One of the Killian memos is an official order to Bush to report for a physical, which never was carried out.
CBS says, in an Aug. 1, 1972 memo, Killian wrote, "On this date I ordered that 1st Lt. Bush be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination ... as ordered."
A memo from Aug. 18, 1973, according to CBS, has Killian saying Col. Buck Staudt, head of the Texas Air National Guard, is putting on pressure to "sugar coat" the evaluation of Lt. Bush.
The memo continues, with Killian saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job."
CBS News said Staudt, a Bush family supporter, would not agree to an interview request. Killian died in 1984.
Bush spokesman Dan Bartlett responded to CBS's request for comment about Killian's statements in the memos.
"For anybody to try to interpret or presume they know what somebody who is now dead was thinking in any of these memos, I think is very difficult to do," he said.
Bartlett added that Bush's superiors granted permission to train in Alabama in a non-flying status and that "many of the documents you have here affirm just that." |
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Nomorelies Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 977 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Good question. However, I don't expect MSM to pick up this story. I think that if Ben Ginsberg follows it he may be in a better position to make hay out of it. The RNC will know how to treat it (if at all) however I think that there is going to be big-time-egg on somebody's face and if it suits the RNC's purpose they will use it. This is a gift and this group gave it to them. They will get their ducks in a row and come out firing with both barrels.
Drudge has it. We must, however, get it moved off the radio and internet and into the newspapers if possible. You can get that the Boston Globe will not back track and admit it made a mistake. The Washington Post may cover it and it may get into the Wall Street Journal. I want to see whagt Major Garrett does with it. _________________ Nomorelies Make a donation HERE |
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coolhand PO3
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 255 Location: MA/RI
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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I did read the entire thread. As any attorney knows, you can find a legitimate expert to testify to anything. Do you think the sumbags who would go to these lengths wont try to dig up experts of their own. The reality is that big media are an agent for Kerry and they will defend this tooth and nail until its blatantly obvious to all that this was a fraud. Saturday is 9/11 anniversary. I would be happy if 9/11 and Ivan blew the guard thing of the cycle. |
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ASPB Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Nomorelies wrote: | Good question. However, I don't expect MSM to pick up this story. I think that if Ben Ginsberg follows it he may be in a better position to make hay out of it. The RNC will know how to treat it (if at all) however I think that there is going to be big-time-egg on somebody's face and if it suits the RNC's purpose they will use it. This is a gift and this group gave it to them. They will get their ducks in a row and come out firing with both barrels.
Drudge has it. We must, however, get it moved off the radio and internet and into the newspapers if possible. You can get that the Boston Globe will not back track and admit it made a mistake. The Washington Post may cover it and it may get into the Wall Street Journal. I want to see whagt Major Garrett does with it. |
Well I talked to him at about 7:00 AM PDT this morning...haven't heard back but even FOX is old media by our standards!  _________________
On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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vickie Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 94
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: Huge Forgery... |
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If you look at the "(F", the "ty" and the "LT" the letters interlock. In typing tems this is called kerning. Kerning is more sophisticated than proportional. In kerning, the letters are adjusted to the neighboring letters, for instance the tail of the "y" in duty goes under the preceding "t".
I am looking at the May 4 memo. In 1973 there only major US news papers were using kerning. It is in modern MS Word. _________________ Vote early. Vote often. The Democrate way... |
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kmmpatriot Lt.Jg.
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 146
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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integritycounts wrote: | Later, however, she sent an e-mail to WND, adding, "CBS verified the authenticity of the documents by talking to individuals who had seen the documents at the time they were written. These individuals were close associates of [Bush commander] Colonel Jerry Killian and confirm that the documents reflect his opinions at the time the documents were written."
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Riiiiiiight. Flip the ENTIRE situation around if it were re: Kerry instead of Bush....and ask whether or not that explanation would fly.
Gimme a BREAK CBS!
~Kylie _________________ The Wise man draws more Advantage from his Enemies, than the Fool from his Friends. - from Poor Richard's Almanac...and a perfect commentary on the current state of this campaign! |
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SeaBee_sis Seaman Recruit
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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ASPB wrote: | coolhand wrote: | Just to play devil's advocate, are we giving this lame story legs? This is at least the third time the Dems brought up Bush's guard service and it never really hurt him. Nobody cares. They hardly did in 2000. What's new? - a couple of memos. Unlike the Swift ads, people aren't learning anything new about W. They know him, how will will act as a commander in chief, and how he will be respected as a commander in chief. He's been vetted, pilloried and slandered for years now. The Swiftee's have an impact because the Dems and big media sold the public a false bill of goods on Kerry. The Swift ads resonated because people learned stuff about Kerry they never knew. If I was Karl Rove, I wouldnt be losing any sleep over this stuff, but if everybody claims forgery without the claims being legally or professionally substantiated beyond doubt, are we giving this nothing story the legs it needs to hang around when it may just fade away? Just a thought.
I do think all this should be verified and CBS should held accountable. I also think they everytime someone bring up Bush's guard service, it is everybody's duty to bring up Kerry's service. It will hurt him more than Bush. If this is going to be big. EVERY pundit, talking head, editorialist, should link it with Kerry. In the end the will end up hurting Kerry more than Bush. |
Jeez! a curmudgeon in every group!
You might want to take the time to read the entire thread which will tell you that "professionally" the result is >90% that the documents are fake. |
the thing most important (IMHO) about this issue is the fact that Blather and company has belittled all the hard evidence that the swifties have come out with and given the swifties story no air time at all, and will tout this pathetic forgery as proof that Bush lied and isn't fit to be in the White House. they will do anything to get their liberal sad sack in office. THE COUNTRY NEEDS TO KNOW HOW BIASED MAIN STREAM MEDIA REALLY IS! (Not to mention the fact that I would like to see someones head roll for forging a military document about the commander in chief, its got to be VERY illegal.)
PUSH IT ALL THE WAY GUYS!!!!
sis |
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You GottaBeKidding Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 692
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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vickie,
Kerning is not the default in Word. I typed my document without kerning and it matches. Furthermore, whoever typed these probably isn't sophisticated enough to know how to turn kerning on. |
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Nomorelies Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 977 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Sean Hannity on the radio show had a caller and talked about the details of the forgeries and read the headline off of Drudge. We are inching closer. _________________ Nomorelies Make a donation HERE |
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dmackto Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 719 Location: Florida
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Nomorelies wrote: | Okay boss. I agree they are fake. What do we do now? What can we do to find someone who can trace the origin of the documents? Is this something the FBI would get into? Is it against the law to forge military documents? |
I dont know if they will or not but I sent them the following "tip" through www.fbi.gov:
Quote: | The Killian memos are frauds. At least one uses
Times New Roman font and standard Microsoft Word configuration. Neither Times New Roman nor Word was around in the 70ies.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay19.pdf
Also check the subscript on this one
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf
subscript would not have been available in any font in
1972.
I think this constitutes election fraud. Forging military documents in order to influence a presidential election. Come to think of it, why don't you investigate the silver star citations on Kerry's website as well? |
Treason
Assassination Plots
Perjury
Attrocities and War Crimes
Election Fraud
Whats next? _________________ Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill |
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Nomorelies Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 977 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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We have to get common language into our emails and posts. Talking points if you will. We need to find a description such as:
Bad forgeries
Lame forgeries
Obvous forgeries
Outrageous forgeries that even an amateur can spot.
It doesn't take an expert to find out these documents are forged.
Should we agree on a buzz word to describe them? _________________ Nomorelies Make a donation HERE |
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arymann PO3
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 269 Location: GA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Brit Hume will report on Fox News -- next up. Mentioned that documents might be fake! |
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Cazador Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 113
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hi!
Wow, what a day.
I posted this am and then fired off a quick note to Drudge and told him that the docs look like they are from MS Word. Forged!
Off to meetings and get the car fixed and come back to -- An MSM meltdown.
CBS is totally off the wall for talking about their experts. Any moron can see the MS Word docs line up with their "originals".
One more nail in their coffin.
Anyone remember the GM laywer that totally reamed NBC's DateLine with Stone Phillips a number of years ago? On live TV? Masterful was the word. This would be a good opportunity for some young attorney to make a name for themselves:-)
Okay, back to my emails.
Cazador |
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mr_mechanical Lt.Jg.
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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BRIT HUME ALL OVER IT!!!! |
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