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TANG Memo on Bush
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lrb111
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul R. wrote:
Incidentally, it seems like I read somewhere that Bush was Blount's campaign manager, but I don't know if that's accurate. It also seems to me that at least one of Bush's superiors commended Bush for his interest in civics and government and stated that he (Bush) would be a fine representative for the Guard in the business / politics world.

(That's just a recollection from a possibly fuzzy brain, up way too late!)


Gracias, You got it. He had campaigned for Blount at some time in the past, and was going to do it a second time. Although, i cannot remember about the "manager" thing either.
I knew it was not his dad as the memo reads, because his dad was busy elsewhere.
So that places "campaigning for dad" on the questionable remarks list. Someone who was actually there at the time would probably referenced a political campaign, but Not "for his dad"...
It was an assumption by the forger.
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well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast.
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jimlarsen
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Joined: 15 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking at the memo's some more and I think the "th" is going to be proof that they were done recently with MS WORD. The th's that are normal sized do have spaces around them, although the size of the space varies. Buti It looks to me like the space size before the "th" varies exactly the same in Word as in the memo's. In my opinion, someone went to a lot of trouble to make these look authentic, and then messed up by leaving a superscript "th" as a tip-off.
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Hammer2
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vet_supporter wrote:
This is good. Captain's Quarters http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/ reports that :

Quote:
The Post even forced CBS to reveal that the documents were "authenticated" via a phone conversation with retired Major General Bobby W. Hodges, Killian's superior:


Then goes over to www.opensecrets.org and finds that the guy is a DEAN supporter.

HODGES, ROBERT
AUSTIN,TX 78731
SELF EMPLOYED/ENGINEER
6/30/2003
$250
Dean, Howard

So, no one at CBS apparently actually had the documents authenticated. IMO, they simply called the person's phone number that was given to them by the same source that gave them these "memos". Who conveniently was a DEAN supporter.

So this fraud has left them holding the bag because they were naive enough to accept at face value the source that provided these papers. I guess it never occurred to them that although the guy has been deceased since 1984, his widow and son were still around and ready to challenge the authenticity of the "memos". And that people familiar with military protocol would also be willing to speak out.

A new day in accountabiltiy for the MSM. Thanks to the people who made an issue of this on the internet, CBS was caught. Now CBS needs to be forced to reveal WHO gave them the forged documents so that person or persons can be held accountable. You can be assured that if this was from a conservative, that's all you'd hear from the MSM, who gave these bogus documents.


Hey everyone, I have been working an angle with this Robert Hodges guy that said he knew Bush's commanding officer and coroborated the fake CBS documents.
So far it looks like he was an engineer with Texas Instruments in Dallas. Then he was attached to Sematech in Austin. He was heavily involved with analog & communications technology. From opensecrets.org, it looks like he may have retired and moved to Huntington Beach, CA.
The angle I have been working is any connection he may have with Texans for Truth, DriveDemocracy.org, Affinity Dynamics, and Glen W. Smith.

Smith is the guy that made the Bush AWOL film. If these two are connected, it could be BIG!!!

It's past my bedtime, but if anyone wants to pursue it further, be my guest. I'll pick it up again tomorrow.
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BC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lrb111 wrote:
So that places "campaigning for dad" on the questionable remarks list. Someone who was actually there at the time would probably referenced a political campaign, but Not "for his dad"...
It was an assumption by the forger.


I agree with what you are saying except I don’t think it was an assumption. I think it was worded that way so as to look like a casual remark and there for look more authentic.
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Prchrmn2
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I mistaken or does the MSNBC posting cited below actaully plagarize exact quates from this blog we are currently on and if so who else in monitoring?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5955784/

A thoughtoccured to me of a more insiduious plan why not let ot some fake memo's (reasonably sure that we can take/doge or redirect the heat) all for the purpose of getting the bloggers to show us how much they know and any weazk areas. Then we come out with round two and cover all those areas so conviently covered for us by the bloggers...am I too far out there?
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BC
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Am I mistaken or does the MSNBC posting cited below actaully plagarize exact quates from this blog we are currently on and if so who else in monitoring?


Seems like they took it from every where with nothing new to add,

Who is monitoring?? hehe you can bet just about everyone in the kerry mafia is.
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jimlarsen
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can go here to start getting information about Major General Bobby W. Hodges: http://www.kwanah.com/txmilmus/airguard/honor/004.ht
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BC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my God….these people are just…just…..AAHHHHH

It’s time to step on these little cockroaches.

There oh so great story gets blown out of the water so the come up with crap like this

Quote:
WASHINGTON - George W. Bush began flying a two-seat training jet more frequently and twice required multiple attempts to land a one-seat fighter in the weeks just before he quit flying for the Texas Air National Guard in 1972, his pilot logs show.


And more BS before the little roach talks about the 60 minutes story

The kitchen light has been turned on today and now they are trying to lay their eggs before they run back into there hole.
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jimlarsen
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crap like this really makes me mad. The F102 was very difficult to land. It had to have the nose up in the air like a Concord, and it didn't have help from a computer. These people who find some remark and then pontificate on how it shows a weakness in Bush (or anyone else) are total idiots. Too bad the Web lets them become published idiots.

If anyone's interested here is the link to 60min readers letters. I just sent them one and ended with 'I used to watch CBS news and 60 Minutes, but now I'd just "Rather" not.'
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Nathanyl
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a link to a Boston Globe article from the 2000 election where Bobby Hodges was quoted:

http://web.archive.org/web/20000816165911/http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/Republican_ticket_lets_a_military_connection_slip+.shtml

Quote:
But the unit's records show, and its former commander, retired Major General Bobby W. Hodges, said that the F-102 was still being flown until the year after Bush left the Guard. Hodges, in a recent interview, echoed the recollection of one of his subordinates: that Bush did not return to the Houston unit, instead finishing his military commitment in Alabama.


''If [Bush] had come back to Houston, I would have kept him flying the 102 until he got out,'' siad Hodges, a Bush admirer. ''But I don't recall him coming back at all.''



I found around 4 other articles from the same year that used only the second paragraph in the above quote. From everything I can find with a quick search it sounds like the guy likes Bush but just doesn't know how to say "no comment".
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lolajl
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaack! I just can't believe how this really blew up in the face of everyone involved! You know, this Barnes character was able to raise $500,000 for the kerry campaign, you'd think he would have spent extra to get a more professional forgerer. This is one of the most stupid tricks I've ever seen.
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hammondb3
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Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overlay Found Here

www.jimroofcreative.com/may19.gif

Pretty much self-explanatory. I printed the scaled down version off of CBSNews and also printed a version I made today using MS Word and all default settings. I re-scanned both images and scaled the MS Word version to fit the same size as the scaled down "1972" memo.

The new version was also rotated and very slightly skewed to match errors introduced by who knows how many photocopier passes.

All of the alterations to the 2004 MS Word document were made GLOBALLY. No changes were made that affected the relative spacing between characters, words, lines or paragraphs.

Feel free to distribute the image found at the link. Please keep the link itself out of circulation.
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lolajl
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammondb3 wrote:
The new version was also rotated and very slightly skewed to match errors introduced by who knows how many photocopier passes.


Dang. Just dang. Heads should be rolling. And if the path leads to Kerry . . .
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Skypilot
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:01 pm


Previously posted:



I opened Microsoft Word, set the font to Microsoft’s Times New Roman, tabbed over to the default tab stop to enter the date “18 August 1973,” then typed the rest of the document purportedly from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian.

And my Microsoft Word version, typed in 2004, is an exact match for the documents trumpeted by CBS News as “authentic.”

A screenshot of the “original” document as found at CBS:



A screenshot of my Microsoft Word document:



The spacing is not just similar—it is identical in every respect. Notice that the date lines up perfectly, all the line breaks are in the same places, all letters line up with the same letters above and below, and the kerning is exactly the same. And I did not change a single thing from Word’s defaults; margins, type size, tab stops, etc. are all using the default settings. The one difference (the “th” in “187th” is slightly lower) is probably due to a slight difference between the Mac and PC versions of the Times New Roman font, or it could be an artifact of whatever process was used to artificially “age” the document. (Update: I printed the document and the “th” matches perfectly in the printed version. It’s a difference between screen and printer fonts.)

There is absolutely no way that this document was typed on any machine that was available in 1973.

UPDATE at 9/9/04 10:57:34 am:

And this is not the only document that was apparently written with Microsoft Word; Jeremy Chrysler had the same idea and discovered another exact correspondence: Bush Guard Documents Forged?

UPDATE at 9/9/04 11:28:55 am:

Here are the two documents superimposed—and please note that when I cut and pasted the images, I just eyeballed it with no special effort to match sizes:




COPIED FROM:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12526_Bush_Guard_Documents-_Forged
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Interested
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cipher wrote:
Okay, here we go. This looks like it is a direct quote from the AFM 35-13:

Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13: “When a Rated Officer Fails To Accomplish a Medical Examination Prescribed by AFM 160-1…(1)The local commander who has authority to convene a Flying Evaluation Board will direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination. After reviewing the findings of the investigation, the local commander may convene a Flying Evaluation Board or forward through command channels a detailed report of the circumstances which resulted in the officer’s failure to accomplish a medical examination, along with a recommendation that the suspension be removed. (2) The individual’s major command will forward the report along with the command recommendation to USAFMPC/DPMAJD, Randolph AFB TX 78148 for final determination.”

NOW, if you look at the 4 May 72 document, (here: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf ) first paragraph, and SUBSTITUTE the language above in place of IAW AFM 35-13, then you can see why it's nonsensical.

(this assumes the quoted text, lifted from the Kerry site, is accurate)
couple of pages of catching-up to do already this morning *grin*

the part you quoted above is what was bothering me at the edge of my brain - such that it is.

The quote from the 29 September 1972 memo which suspends Bush's flight status is this:
Quote:
Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13

Now this is me - a civilian (albeit with some exposure to military 'prose') but as I understand that ...it means that the infraction was of Para 2-10, AFM 35-13, NOT of para 2-29m. Para 2-29m sounds like it sets out the consequences of actions or omissions laid out in the earlier paras 2-xx. These AFMs sound like they must read very similarly to building and zoning codes.

The memo in question (May 4 memo) does not mention Para 2-10 at all, which given that it appears in ALL the other official language (that I've seen so far IIRC) raises another eyebrow.

Here's a comparison of the two to compare verbage:

29 September 1972 TANG AO 87 or 67 (hard to read) linked above:
Quote:
Reason for suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination. Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13

compare to 4 May 1972 Memo from Killian
Quote:
not later than (NLT) 14 May, 1972 to conduct annual physical examination (flight) IAW AFM 35-13


why would the same procedure, and regulation be described in two totally different ways?
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