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1AD · Lt.Jg. Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 138

YGBKM

Saw the entire document. The superscript is not the same as on the 04 May 1972 memorandum. I know we are all on the same side but we all need to know what document Dan used. And as we all agree Dan ignored other facts unfavorable to him. Again, an old lawyers trick. Highlight the favorable, give passing lip service, if any to the unfavorable. Set up straw men and knock them down. Then declare victory. Not so fast Mr. Rather.

You GottaBeKidding · Rear Admiral Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 692

1AD,

I've said all along that the superscripts are different. My point is that the superscripts in and of themselves are evidence of nothing since there apparently was a typewriter with superscript capability used to type some of GWB's documents.

It's the NATURE of the superscripts that is important.

You GottaBeKidding · Rear Admiral Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 692

Mr. Mechanical,

The odds of typewriter print matching exactly are excellent. 10 CPI is 10 CPI is 10 CPI and 6 lines per inch is 6 lines per inch. You could type a document on a typewriter with Elite (a 12 pitch serif face) and the same document on a typewriter with Letter Gothic (a 12 pitch sans serif face) and the two documents will align perfectly, although the characters won't overlap perfectly because they are different styles.

Try changing the font in your document to Letter Gothic and the same size and I doubt that anything will change (although because this is a word processor, it's possible).

tg-l · Seaman Recruit Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 5

You GottaBeKidding · Rear Admiral Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 692

Yes. That's one of the points that a typewriter print expert has made. He says that even proportional typewriter print had a 4 with an open top.

mr_mechanical · Lt.Jg. Joined: 13 Aug 2004 Posts: 121 Location: Virginia

Hondo · LCDR Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 423 Location: USA

Hell folks, I think we're in violent agreement!

Any typewriter can be used to produce superscripts. All you have to do is manually back the paper down 1/2 line and type the number/letter(s) desired, then roll it back up 1/2 line. Did many subscripts in academic documents this way as a youngster.

However, superscripts produced this way will be bigger than the subscripts in the alleged Killian documents. Only two ways I know of to avoid this using a typewriter. One is to use a typewriter with changeable fonts (e.g., wheel or ball) and change to a much smaller font while typing the subcript, then change back afterwards. The other way is to use a wheel/ball/typewrither with a special "th" superscript character for that font.

Couple this with proportional spacing, and outside of possibly the Selectric Composer I think anything but a linotype machine of the period may be ruled out. Don't even think that the Composer could pull it off, but I'm not sure. Given it's cost (I believe I've seen it quoted at approx $20k in the early 1970s), I think odds are around 1:100,000 or better that a TxANG unit didn't have one.

As to the Courier font / Bush Service Resume issue: I hope to test that tonight. Courier New looks close, but a superscript "th" auto-generated by Word2000 using Courier New seems to be slightly wider than a space in that font. Don't have Courier on the machine where I am at present.

Nomorelies · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:47 am Post subject:

Okay. Here is the BEST analysis of the type and the forgeries on the net. This guy is an absolute expert and he says they are computer generated.

http://www.bondwine.com/gulag/archives/000183.html
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Hondo · LCDR Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 423 Location: USA

Damn, Nomo, that one looks great. I know enough about the field to follow the guy's analysis; he seems to really know what he's talking about!

Follow-up: Finished the article. Technically, he's right on the mark. Military wise, he made a couple of minor errors (rank abbreviations called out to be in error when correct), but nothing major.

In short: GREAT ANALYSIS, IMO DEFINITIVE.

Billman · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:59 am Post subject:

Here's a better-quality version of the known-authentic doc on Beldar's blog:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/superscrptth.jpg

This was produced using a separate "th" key available on more expensive typewriters beginning in the 70's. You could also do "rd" and "st" and "nd". I've used it myself. It isn't_a_superscript in the typesetting or MS Word sense (doesn't extend above the line) and doesn't resemble the forged doc.

In short: not relevant.
_________________
-- Bill in Seattle

Hondo · LCDR Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 423 Location: USA

Billman,

Thanks. Thought I might have remembered seeing these in the 1970s and/or early 1980s, but that was a long time ago and clerical wasn't my primary job.

As you point out, it's also irrelevant to the issue of forgery. Typewriters, with VERY few exceptions, simply don't do proportional spacing. Those few that did apparently didn't use Times New Roman as a font.

John "Forged" Kerry - has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Sonar5 · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:16 am Post subject:

gulf1609 · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 78

I am so angry about this. I feel like Rather thumbed his nose at all of us who use the computer to find out the truth. If he is allowed to get away with this and CBS suffers no consequences for forging documents, lieing or at the least using the nightly news to give 1 side only of a story, then this will become more widespread than it is now.

Instead of trying to boycott advertisers, we ought to concentrate on CBS prime time shows. If the actors/directors get wind that their show might be in trouble because of Rather they might be able to put some powerful pressure on CBS news. It might also be worthwhile to check out Viacom, the parent company. If you get on www.cbs.com you will get a listing of all the prime time shows and the new fall line up. We need to find email, phone numbers to these shows, stars, or publisicts. Anyone have any contacts ar ideas on how to reach people connected with these shows?

gulf1609 · Seaman Apprentice Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 78

I am so angry about this. I feel like Rather thumbed his nose at all of us who use the computer to find out the truth. If he is allowed to get away with this and CBS suffers no consequences for forging documents, lieing or at the least using the nightly news to give 1 side only of a story, then this will become more widespread than it is now.

Instead of trying to boycott advertisers, we ought to concentrate on CBS prime time shows. If the actors/directors get wind that their show might be in trouble because of Rather they might be able to put some powerful pressure on CBS news. It might also be worthwhile to check out Viacom, the parent company. If you get on www.cbs.com you will get a listing of all the prime time shows and the new fall line up. We need to find email, phone numbers to these shows, stars, or publisicts. Anyone have any contacts ar ideas on how to reach people connected with these shows?