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grandforker
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Debs wrote: | | I think the Pentagon should be on this and maybe so should the Killian family. |
The FBI should examining the documents. They are among the world's foremost authorities on identifying forgery.
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FireFox
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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I recently got a phone call from our local school district and they said that they had a guy from the press that was doing a story on home schooling and wondered if I wanted to be interviewed. I said no because I've heard of many other people being misrepresented by the press and she said that she completely understood. She should understand as the school district is in the press frequently.
I'm just amazed at how the press is becoming a spin machine. But I'm glad to see that Professor Bouffard is as diligent in his analysis as his reputation makes him out to be.
| kmmpatriot wrote: |
Only problem with this is that Bouffard is now telling indcjournal that the Globe misrepresented what he said! Does this just keep gettting better or what??? I am having trouble keeping up...
http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000859.php
~Kylie |
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Cazador
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Does anyone have an answer to this?
A fellow told me that he used a Selectric with Proportional spacing back in 1972. Not the Composer.
Did they have them back then?
Also, has anyone contacted IBM about this?
Cazador |
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FireFox
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Cazador wrote: | Hi,
Does anyone have an answer to this?
A fellow told me that he used a Selectric with Proportional spacing back in 1972. Not the Composer.
Did they have them back then?
Also, has anyone contacted IBM about this?
Cazador |
Probably an IBM Executive. It had proportional spacing but it only had four widths for the characters. The August memo has at least 10 different widths for characters. |
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grandforker
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Based on what I've read, the consensus is that the standard Selectric couldn't do proportional spacing.
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Hard pounding, gentlemen. Let's see who pounds the longest. -- Wellington at Waterloo |
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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The finger is pointing directly to the Democratic National Committee
| Quote: | The Prowler Reports
Was the Kerry campaign the source of the Killian forgeries? The Prowler says there is evidence that it was. (The Spectator site is currently down because of a Drudge link--the same thing happened to us yesterday--so the link is to a cached version):
More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.
The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.
"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."
The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."
A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.
"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."
The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.
Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign.
Posted by Hindrocket at 07:59 AM | Permalink | TrackBack (12) |
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whuffo
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject: 2 choices for CBS |
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2, choices for CBS.....
1. Continue with the stupid "it's authentic" line that will sink them faster than the Titanic, or....
2. Turn on their DNC friends and use every bit of "investigative reporting" at their disposal to prove they were dupes of a terribly sophisticated and sinister hoax.
Option 1 is suicide. Option 2 may at least preserve a tiny smidgen of respect for the general public. |
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Al_Hawaii
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 35
Location: Mililani, HI
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't see a typewriter when I was in Viet Nam in 71/72. I used one at Fort Riley, but can't remember if it was an IBM. When I came back on active duty in 79 we were using IBM Selectics with the font ball. I don't believe they were porportional.
As far as the Army went, we didn't get word processing machines until the late 80's. I can't believe the government would spend money on the NG before the active military. And I can't believe they would put a typewriter like that in a LTC's office instead of the admin clearks.
At least there was an article claiming the possiblity the documets are fakes in today's Honolulu Advertiser.
Aloha,
Al |
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twicearound
PO2
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 362
Location: San Antonio
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ccr
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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This from KerrySpot.
It is continuing to move in the right direction...
http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200409111432.asp
| Quote: |
BACK TO THE CBS MEMOS
The only expert cited by CBS in this case, Marcel Matley, wrote in the September 27, 2002 issue of the journal, "The Practical Litigator":
In fact, modern copiers and computer printers are so good that they permit easy fabrication of quality forgeries. From a copy, the document examiner cannot authenticate the unseen original but may well be able to determine that the unseen original is false. Further, a definite finding of authenticity for a signature is not possible from a photocopy, while a definite finding of falsity is possible.
Attempting to authenticate a signature from a photocopy is exactly what Matley did for CBS.
Game over.
UPDATE: A couple of readers question whether this really is "game over" - whether CBS can hunker down and wait for the storm to blow over.
Actually, it appears CBS no longer has any witnesses backing up its case.
RatherBiased.com notes that Robert Strong told the New York Times that he does not believe that his former associate [Jerry Killian] used a proportional font typewriter during his time in the Texas guard. "'I'm skeptical that Killian was working on that,' Mr. Strong said."
Now we also hear that in an interview with The Los Angeles Times, Marcel B. Matley, CBS' document examiner "said he had only judged a May 4, 1972, memo — in which Killian ordered Bush to take his physical — to be authentic. He said he did not form a judgment on the three other disputed memos because they only included Killian's initials and he did not have validated samples of the officer's initials to use for comparison."
The sole remaining individual cited in CBS's report is author Jim Moore, who Rather said, "has written two books critical of President Bush and his service in the Guard." Moore, however, simply asserts that the documents are real and that the lack of a White House statement discrediting the documents (yet) shows that "the White House probably knows that these documents are, in fact, real."
Uh, no. That statement is meaningless. By that standard, I can assert that the fact that Ed Bradley, Mike Wallace, Morley Safer and the rest of the Sunday 60 Minutes crew haven't come to defend Rather means they "probably know that these documents are, in fact, fake, and so badly done that a third-grader could recognize the differences between a document created with a typewriter and one created on a modern computer, and that Rather has gone cuckoo for cocoa puffs."
Right now, the camp that believes the documents are the real deal consists of Dan Rather, Jim Moore, Tom Harkin, and possibly Terry McAuliffe, although the DNC head also apparently thinks Karl Rove did it.
[Posted 09/11 02:32 PM]
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Nomorelies
Vice Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 977
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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More on Matley
"The Expert Ambush: How To Hold Off Your Opponent Until The Cavalry Arrives", which advises how to stall and obfuscate when presented with expert testimony damaging to your case. Not only is the article a roadmap for Dan Rather's defense so far, but it also shows that Matley is an experienced partisan who focuses much more on beating his opponent than on getting his testimony right.
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ccr
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Fox News Watch is discussing TANG memos now.
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lrb111
Captain
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Just for point of reference gang.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml
If you look at the right hand side of the page there are the stories in newest at the top. Reading the stories from the bottom up, you can see the setup, the sale, the scam, and the aftermath...
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well, when even the DNC can see it,,,,, then kerry is toast. |
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Debs
Lieutenant
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 228
Location: Lubbock, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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In regard to the NR article, I think the White House received these memos the day before the 60 Minutes program, and released copies of them in an effort to fully disclose everything on Bush's guard service, possibly before the program aired, I am not sure. The White House, at first, did not question their authenticity. McClellan backed off of that yesterday saying now they don't know if they are authentic, so the White House is now, in essence, questioning them.
Debbie
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.boycottcbs.com/
Take a look at the site which is Boycott CBS.com Think about joining the effort.
Tom
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