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George F. Thompson
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 80
Location: Fort Walton Beach, Fl 32547
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 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:06 am Post subject: Fake documents |
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CBS= CAN'T BELIEVE SH*T
George F. Thompson |
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MarcB
Ensign
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:09 am Post subject: |
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check out Allah in the House http://www.allahpundit.com/ It is very very funny.
MarcB
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"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last."
- Winston Churchill, on Neville Chamberlain |
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FreeFall
LCDR
Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 421
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Here's a question I haven't seen any info on.
Did Kilian do his own typing? Or would a secretary have done it? Back in the early 70's, I don't recall seeing many men typing. That was back in the days of secretaries doing lots of shorthand and typing.
Also, if a secretary had done it, wouldn't she have put her initials on the document on the bottom? |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:46 am Post subject: |
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LTCOL Killian's son (also TANG) has said that his Father was not a typist, that he would have hand-written such a document if he had been stupid enough to write it at all.
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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Spiess
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:03 am Post subject: An email I encourage everyone to send to CBS ABC NBC MSNBC.. |
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I am sending as many Emails as I can questioning the Defense of Rathers reputation, Help me please.
I have some questions about your report that you are using to defend the Bush Memos.
1. what type writer models, by which companies were availble at the time these reports were writen?
2. what was the cost of these models at that time?
3. Which Documents did you use to show the Raised th that were previously released by the white house that you point to to show there are other documents written in this format?
4. were they the same documents that are in questions, since the white house was given these docs 24 hours before the airing by cbs they then took them and e-released them?
5. Why can I not find on your website the ADZACT documents, you are saying, have the raised "th" on you web site, or anywhere else for that matter?
6. what are your responses to Hodges, and the Killian family? that is in-regards to thier interviews on other networks? |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: |
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spiess, the answers to all of those questions are in the main TANG thread (and the links they point to).
1) It doesn't matter what models were available then, since NO model available then can recreate the documents shown. Moot point.
2) It doesn't matter what they cost, per Item 1, above.
3) The documents used are on the thread. They show a superscripted [sup]th[/sup] that was a mechanical key and not a proportional font set.
4) The White House was sent copies as a courtesy. The White House distributed them without comment, which is normal.
5) Beats me. But the document is referred on THIS site, in the main thread (somewhere around page 43 or so).
6) They are stonewalling. CBS is ignoring any other commentary from any other source, because they are staying aboard until the ship sinks. I doubt they want to contact the family or staff again, as they got the quotes they needed the first time, and do not want to retract.
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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meggaditto
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 16
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dcornutt
PO3
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 267
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:28 am Post subject: |
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I just did a little experiment. I have a mac, OSX. It has "word" on it and the mac version of Times New Roman.
When I tried to duplicate the documents, I could not without making alterations. 
First, the spacing and the font are ever so slightly different. But then, that's something "we" already knew. That even different versions of the "same" font, have slight changes in them that could affect spacing/kerning etc.
Here's what happened:
I opened Word for Mac. With all defaults (times new roman is the font). size 12 point. Margins default at 1.25 inch. I typed the document and it was WAY off...line breaks at the wrong point..etc.
1) I had to reduce the font size one point to even get close
2) I had to pull the right margin even after that, to get it to line break as the document did
3)*** The superscript was slightly lower***
We already know, if it's not evident by now, that different versions of the same font, can have slight variations that can throw spacing, etc..off. But, it was actually in seeing if I could fix this document, ie..change things to see if I could get close, that I discovered something I think we have all overlooked (unless I've just missed it somewhere?) That dang MS word autoformatting...it does a lot more than just auto superscripts something you might type. It also auto "indents" or changes the line brake margin..sometimes for things like "bullet lists", numbered lists..etc.
How many times you have that happen to you. You are in word, and typing along following your document, suddenly, you see the line break of your sentance indented..etc? Well, it happend to me. I don't know how, but I think you'll see where I'm headed in a min.
Take a look at the May4th document where it says
MEMORANDUM FOR 1st Lt. George W. Bush, (redacted address), Houston, Texas 77027
The last part of that is an "address". ie..5000, Longmont #8, Houston, (line break/indent) Texas 77027.
How did we miss this? The "Texas 77027" dropped a line break..but look where it is!!!!
You know what that is? It's the default spacing if you hit the "Increase Indent" button in the toolbar in WORD. You ever have that happen to you? Autoformatting in word? And suddenly you find these extra margins it might put in where you previously had a bullet point or numbered list? And you go back in to type something there and you get this weired line break? You look up and see that the margins have moved on you for that line?
It happend to me somehow in typing it. Just by accident. I just happen to notice it's EXACTLY the same spacing as the dropped and indented "Texas 72027".
Now, here's the deal, you could "also" set a tab..in anything, to make that indent. The question is "WHY" would you indent the State and zip from the previous line address after the comma???????? So obviously, this was an unintentional thing, not a 'purposeful" or intentional setting of a tab for that purpose. (unless there is some strange AF reg that reuqires it?) Anybody want to find me an IBM typewriter with this feature? ..ie..line break with indented margin?
Or has this been discussed before? I can't believe I'm just now noticing this. WHY IS THE STATE AND ZIP INDENTED..on what is obviously just a line break? I bet that very same thing has happend to you too sometimes in Word , Powerpoint, etc...by accident to. Now, clarifying here, I'm no expert. I just have eyeballs. And questions. And I'm SURE somebody can come up with an explanation about how you can tab or indent something on a typewriter. The deal is, there is no reason I can see for that to be indented or tabbed. So, it obviously happend by accident. STrange that this little accident TOO lines up "exactly" with the default "increase indent" formatting in word.
I bet everybody has just been hyperfocusing so hard, zooming in..it just hasn't really hit anybody yet. That same thing, auto indent, has happend to me a million times in Word. Aggravating. I bet it's happend to you too before. But, I dont' recall it EVER happening to me on a "typewriter". Lets see Dan Rather explain "that"! Maybe he can? I never used those superduper Typewriters in the 70s. If I had 4.000 bucks back then...I'd have bought a Vette with a LS6 and muncie 4 speed. Or a Daytona Hemi Superbird. Or a Cobra Mustang. But..that's just me.
Anyway, I don't know beans about typewriters. But, that looks like a screw up that happens in WORD to me. I don't ever recal cursing at my typewriter when I had a strange indent on a line break that I coudln't figure out how it got there. Anybody else? |
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baldeagl
PO3
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: Texas
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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| WebTalk wrote: | I can see a potential problem brewing here and it's called "FOCUS".
The Kerry camp has diverted attention.
We're now investigating a CBS fraud case dealing with Bush's military record and getting all excited about outing Dan Rather.
I thought it was Kerry's record that's under scrutiny here. Kerry made this campaign all about him being a Vietnam hero and thus the best candidate to become CIC.
I know that it's fun to nail the MSM and prove the power of the blogosphere to get to the truth, but the only important truth we need to expose is who John F'ing Kerry really is. [/rant]
Carry on.
P.S. Maybe after the election we can all meet back here and reopen that Vince Foster issue and take another swipe at the Clintons. That'll be fun. |
I disagree. Foster and Clinton aside, this DOES deal directly with Kerry and the SBVT as follows:
1) Kerry is using the issue of Bush's ANG service to distract from his own failings, deceptions, and misrepresentations with the help of the MSM. Now EVERYTHING that Kerry and the MSM will be scrutinized the way Clinton's every sentence was parsed for truth and meaning. The distraction goes away, and the focus returns to Kerry (with our help of course!). It is Kerry and the DNC that are being deceptive here, not the SBVT or Bush. The veracity of the SBVT is intact, and until Kerry released his full military records, unchallenged.
2) I have heard that there were other "documents" that CBS, the DNC and Kerry had that they were going to dribble out over the course of the next two months. Now they are going to be either abandoned or reforged to look like they actually came from the early seventies. At any rate, there is no way the liberal MSM is going to be able to sell this kind of fabrication again. I bet a whole raft of forgeries and other deceptions designed to favor Kerry have just been flushed down the toilet. Bummer for Kerry.
3) Now, as mentioned in this forum, all of Kerry's published documentation will be scrutinized down to the microkerning level. It is too late for them to pull them, as there are literally millions of copies on computers everywhere. Kerry better hope they are legit. This puts incredible pressure on Kerry to sign the 180, which is most definitely in the SBVT's favor, because there is now a reason to see the original documentation: we have to confirm what Kerry says. He is a proven liar, so the burden is on him to back up his claims.
4) Finally, this immediately and justifiably puts the media's descriptions of the SBVT as liar, Republican shills, smear mongers etc., under suspicion, as Rather has demonstrated their now publicly revealed liberal bias and support for Kerry. By default, the SBVT are more legitimate, because O'Neill has wisely kept his ducks in a row, but the MSM has publicly demonstrated that they will abandon their presumed journalistic ethics to support the candidate of their choice.
| Quote: |
The downside to all of this is that anyone wanting to become an expert forger now has a doctoral level course freely available. |
Absolutely true, but the damage has been done. Unless it is released from the source in original, unadulterated form, i.e. no copies, scans etc., it will be immediately suspect. Some of the rest of the media, i.e. the WaPo, has not sided with CBS/Rather/Boston Globe, and run relatively accurate stories about this in a timely manner. And any budding forger should be well aware that we are out here, full of experience and skill, just waiting for them to try. Their biggest problem is that they have to have information about 30+ year old technology AND military protocol, which is a pretty tough combination (since all the good guys are here!).
Secondly, as I have posted elsewhere, high school kids to a better job forging fake IDs. This document was so amateurish, one has to wonder if the forger was mentally challenged (something I suspect of all ultraleftists that support Kerry, but it could simply be ignorance or bad judgement!). Further, since CBS had them for at least six weeks, their mental capacity as well as their impartiality (LOL!!) has to be questioned. In Rather's case, it simply confirmed what we all already knew.
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Everytime he had a choice, Kerry chose to side with communists rather than the United States. |
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Misty
Lieutenant
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 223
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:46 am Post subject: |
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He's toast....
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Misty
----------
Dad was in the Navy Pacific Fleet
Brother was on the USS Regulus - Vietnam
Husband was AirForce 3rd (34th) Tactical Fighter Wing - Security Police Bien Hoa Vietnam |
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dcornutt
PO3
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 267
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Just to clarify in case that was in regards to my post, my post wasn't about the "location" of the state,zip in Texas. It was about the location of that on the "page" of the may 04 document. It's a line break with an indent with default "increase indent" settings of "word". |
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Hammer2
PO2
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 387
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Misty, that made my night!
ROTFLMAO!!!
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson |
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Mastour
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:55 am Post subject: Thanks |
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| dcornutt wrote: | I just did a little experiment. I have a mac, OSX. It has "word" on it and the mac version of Times New Roman.
When I tried to duplicate the documents, I could not without making alterations.
First, the spacing and the font are ever so slightly different. But then, that's something "we" already knew. That even different versions of the "same" font, have slight changes in them that could affect spacing/kerning etc.
Here's what happened:
I opened Word for Mac. With all defaults (times new roman is the font). size 12 point. Margins default at 1.25 inch. I typed the document and it was WAY off...line breaks at the wrong point..etc.
1) I had to reduce the font size one point to even get close
2) I had to pull the right margin even after that, to get it to line break as the document did
3)*** The superscript was slightly lower***
We already know, if it's not evident by now, that different versions of the same font, can have slight variations that can throw spacing, etc..off. But, it was actually in seeing if I could fix this document, ie..change things to see if I could get close, that I discovered something I think we have all overlooked (unless I've just missed it somewhere?) That dang MS word autoformatting...it does a lot more than just auto superscripts something you might type. It also auto "indents" or changes the line brake margin..sometimes for things like "bullet lists", numbered lists..etc.
How many times you have that happen to you. You are in word, and typing along following your document, suddenly, you see the line break of your sentance indented..etc? Well, it happend to me. I don't know how, but I think you'll see where I'm headed in a min.
Take a look at the May4th document where it says
MEMORANDUM FOR 1st Lt. George W. Bush, (redacted address), Houston, Texas 77027
The last part of that is an "address". ie..5000, Longmont #8, Houston, (line break/indent) Texas 77027.
How did we miss this? The "Texas 77027" dropped a line break..but look where it is!!!!
You know what that is? It's the default spacing if you hit the "Increase Indent" button in the toolbar in WORD. You ever have that happen to you? Autoformatting in word? And suddenly you find these extra margins it might put in where you previously had a bullet point or numbered list? And you go back in to type something there and you get this weired line break? You look up and see that the margins have moved on you for that line?
It happend to me somehow in typing it. Just by accident. I just happen to notice it's EXACTLY the same spacing as the dropped and indented "Texas 72027".
Now, here's the deal, you could "also" set a tab..in anything, to make that indent. The question is "WHY" would you indent the State and zip from the previous line address after the comma???????? So obviously, this was an unintentional thing, not a 'purposeful" or intentional setting of a tab for that purpose. (unless there is some strange AF reg that reuqires it?) Anybody want to find me an IBM typewriter with this feature? ..ie..line break with indented margin?
Or has this been discussed before? I can't believe I'm just now noticing this. WHY IS THE STATE AND ZIP INDENTED..on what is obviously just a line break? I bet that very same thing has happend to you too sometimes in Word , Powerpoint, etc...by accident to. Now, clarifying here, I'm no expert. I just have eyeballs. And questions. And I'm SURE somebody can come up with an explanation about how you can tab or indent something on a typewriter. The deal is, there is no reason I can see for that to be indented or tabbed. So, it obviously happend by accident. STrange that this little accident TOO lines up "exactly" with the default "increase indent" formatting in word.
I bet everybody has just been hyperfocusing so hard, zooming in..it just hasn't really hit anybody yet. That same thing, auto indent, has happend to me a million times in Word. Aggravating. I bet it's happend to you too before. But, I dont' recall it EVER happening to me on a "typewriter". Lets see Dan Rather explain "that"! Maybe he can? I never used those superduper Typewriters in the 70s. If I had 4.000 bucks back then...I'd have bought a Vette with a LS6 and muncie 4 speed. Or a Daytona Hemi Superbird. Or a Cobra Mustang. But..that's just me.
Anyway, I don't know beans about typewriters. But, that looks like a screw up that happens in WORD to me. I don't ever recal cursing at my typewriter when I had a strange indent on a line break that I coudln't figure out how it got there. Anybody else? |
Ok folks, I'm a believer. I just don't think the MSM will do anything about this. Spin, spin, spin.
The overall objective is to get the Swifties heard and have the bright light of truth shown on Kerry. My vote has been cast I can only hope that the rest of the country takes a look at what is going on with this attempted election fraud and realize we have some serious problems and it seems to me the only person who is acting at all rational with all this is the President.
Thank God for that.
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Everybody has their own truth. The facts are what matter and you can't fudge the facts! |
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You GottaBeKidding
Rear Admiral
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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dcornutt:
You are trying WAY too hard.
I used the Windows version of Word and was able to duplicate all four memos with NO manipulation at all except for changing the margins to .9" for the two documents with the address at the top, and typing four space (in addition to a tab) in front of the second line of the subject that has a two-line subject.
I have seen reports from people who have Macs who were able to duplicate at least one of the memos with no changes, and I sent my four docs to someone who has both a Mac and a PC and he printed them off both onto different printers.
No changes. So I don't know what you did that forced you to make adjustments, but something's wrong.
BTW, the superscript PRINTS properly. Ignore how it displays onscreen. |
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