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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Rarely. However, I think Beldar is. The quote pulled was from what he wrote quoting the lawyer who had no clue about the real people who are behind the goofy names in the blogosphere:
| Quote: | Hugh Hewitt, for example, posted today about an article in today's Los Angeles Times article today in which Jeffrey Seglin, a professor at Emerson College in Boston, is quoted as saying,
"The fear I have is: How do you know who's doing the Web logs?
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
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MJB
LCDR
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | I came to this board looking for military insight into this latest question of forgery surrounding the democrats. I have a question, some of you may be able to answer.
air_vet said
"I'm not sure the use of a PO Box number is a problem. The unit probably only ran a 5 day a week administrative operation leaving the Post Office no place to deliver the mail on Saturdays. "
The August 18, 1973 memo was written on a Saturday. In that memo, he mentions that "Harris gave me a message today from Grp" and that "Harris took the call from Grp today".
Was it normal for men of this rank to be working on Saturday or is this another oversight of the true author of the memos?
('m new and don't know how to do the fancy stuff you pros know how to do. Go gentle on me please.) |
I think that's a GREAT question! (Just jump on in, the water's fine here  )
I don't have any question regarding a Guard unit (or a Guard commander) working on a Saturday, but to get a message from "Grp today"? Interesting, very interesting...
The Guard folks on this board could maybe answer the question better than me, but I think that's a little funny.
And "Grp" - would that be for some kind of Airgroup? Would they get a message from a Group commander? In the intel world we had an administrative chain of command, and an operational chain of command. I would think the flyboys would have had more of a unified chain of command, yes?
Welcome to the party! 
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MJB
USAF '85-'92 |
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cnpmd1
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 2
Location: carmichael, california
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Long time listener, first time caller! I'm curious as to what other contributors think about who may have perpetrated this rather obvious hoax. The ease with which it was recognized by reasonably intelligent people makes me wonder if that was the intent of the perp. It certainly would have been a lot easier to produce documents that would withstand greater scrutiny-old typewriters aren't that hard to find, and a signature could look a lot more like it should. I'm suspicious that we are not dealing with either political party here, but rather with a person or persons who simply wanted to hook a hungry liberal media fish with some very artificial bait. If so, it worked! In spite of all the excellent technical analysis of this hoax, I am still bugged by that one superscript in the "miscellaneous" file of GWB. It is obviously different than in the hoaxed memos, but Mr. Blather seems to be using it as a defense. The "th" appears to be underlined, and is in a document which appears to have been typed on an otherwise ordinary typewriter, where the line spacing is not perfectly aligned with the lined page it was typed on (how well I remember). Assuming there was a typewriter that had a "th" superscript key, would it not also have had a "st", "nd", and "rd" keys? What keys would have been replaced by these special keys? It looks like the typist on the real document used the special key the first time, then went back to standard practice for the next two entries, while the hoaxer had to purposely backspace and retype on the letterhead to undo the auto superscript in Word, then let it go in on the third 111 (not putting any "th" on the second)(o4May 1972 document). Was this meant as a clue?-both typists deviated from norm on the first iteration, then kind of went back to the norm after that. I just have a hunch that whoever did this was not being sloppy or stupid. As to ulterior motive, who can know?
Craig |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:23 am Post subject: |
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The Guard is often (unjustly) disparaged as "Weekend Warriors"
Working on Saturdays and Sundays is normal for the TANG or any other National Guard unit.
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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swiftyvetfan4ever
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:35 am Post subject: |
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Hi everyone
This is my first time here and still trying to find my way around. Sorry for changing the subject but I was wondering if anyone can help me with some of the records on Kerry's website. One is about his DD214 with his bogus "V"awards.
www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf
My question is when was this form done and I noticed that the person who wrote it up was a T. VanStrydonck the very same man mentioned in another file on the same website in the Recommendations for next. In the #3. it mentions this Thomas Van Strydonck back in 24 Nov 1969.
www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf
Can you point me in the direction of which forum I should go to see if anyone followed up on this. |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:35 am Post subject: |
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Welcome aboard, craig!
Different typists, different machines, different locations, different dates, different commands. I think the only place you see superscripted characters are from entries made at Lackland AFB.
Superscripts were not unheard of, just not often encountered. And it could have been a specialty machine in the personnel office where that sort of stuff was needed a few hundred times a day. The advantage of superscripts is that more infor could be typed on the limited space.
It would NOT be farfetched for a personnel office to have a superscripting machine. But for a local command at the squadron level, it WOULD be unusual.
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:51 am Post subject: |
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re: the MILPERS officer, van Strydonck.
He's briefly discussed here:
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=48068#48068
If you have other documents with his name appearing, it may or may not be significant.
And only the V on the Silver Star is bogus. Technically, we haven't proved the V on the Bronze Star is bogus, since there is controversy over the issue of enemy fire, which is sort of a prerequiste for the V.
The Search feature at the top of each page is helpful to find references to threads, but you may need to search several pages to get to the exact point of reference.
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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swiftyvetfan4ever
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Oh, my.
Isn't that just ... cozy.
I don't think anyone has pinged on that. Nice catch.
Why don't you PM Beldar and NavyChief and ask for a reading on those two documents and that extraordinary ... coincidence.
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USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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Papa Yolk
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Roswell ID
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:07 am Post subject: |
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THE REAL ROBERT STRONG...
On why the memos came out:
"Bush is getting what is coming to him because of his people's involvement in the Swift Boat Vets' ads."
HTTP://WWW.POWERLINEBLOG.COM/ |
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Navy_Navy_Navy
Admin
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 5777
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| swiftyvetfan4ever wrote: | | In the #3. it mentions this Thomas Van Strydonck back in 24 Nov 1969. |
So, it looks like Kerry's 214 was written up by his relief? Am I reading that right?
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Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother |
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cipher
Vice Admiral
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: |
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That is exactly what it looks like to me. The MILPERS guy was going to get a bump up to be a flag aide to an admiral.
Nice work, if you can get it.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92 |
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MJB
LCDR
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| cnpmd1 wrote: | Long time listener, first time caller! I'm curious as to what other contributors think about who may have perpetrated this rather obvious hoax. ...... I just have a hunch that whoever did this was not being sloppy or stupid. As to ulterior motive, who can know?
Craig |
Come on in - the water's fine Great question - interesting to speculate.
Over at Ace of Spade's blog, he has some interesting new information regarding the possible source for CBS -
http://ace.mu.nu/
"Bill Burkett, Hinted by Newsweek as Potential Source for Documents, Blames Bush for Not Receiving the Medical Treatment He Believes Himself Entitled To Due to History of "Nervous Breakdowns"
Etc. Very interesting.
Before I read that, I wondered (and still do) if it might not have been someone trying to get a big "in" with the DNC/Kerry campaign. You know, a "hey, look what I can do for you" that got passed along up the food chain.
It's hard to believe someone could do such a half-***** job on this and not think they'd be caught. That's why I speculate it was a "test run" that went amok.
On the other hand, when all you eat, sleep, breathe and read is confined to a small circle of influence, who knows. I absolutely believe Dan Rather didn't have the slightest clue what was up with these docs. Not clue one.
He's just had a rude introduction to the power of multiple eyes and brains working separately, but as one.
Swarm'd.
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MJB
USAF '85-'92 |
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Prchrmn2
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 7
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Cipher wrote -
"And only the V on the Silver Star is bogus. Technically, we haven't proved the V on the Bronze Star is bogus, since there is controversy over the issue of enemy fire, which is sort of a prerequiste for the V. "
Correct me if I am wrong (I work with several retired navy/marines and we all agree) the Silver star has NEVEr been awarded a"V" device because the award itself presupposes valor? Another interesting thing we concluded is that Kerry's non-signature of the 180 release form is because the Purple Hearts requires two primary things...Enemey firs AND treatment by a Medical officer...we believe the records would show treatment by a corpsman and bottom lined by the medical Officer which is NOT the same thing! I just wish the media has bit on this when I sent it to Rick Roberts (KFMB) and a few others. 
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"To murder character is as truly a crime as to murder the body: the tongue of the slanderer is brother to the dagger of the assassin." -- Tryon Edwards |
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ondryland
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 35
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:20 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | Has anyone had an opportunity to check out the P.O. Box 34567 number?
I believe this was mentioned on another thread and I agree it looks a bit strange to me. Maybe this whole thing was a sting. |
Please read P.O. Box "34567" not as in weekend work but i.e. 12345 as in sequential numbers. I have had occasion to work with and have a number of p.o. box numbers, none of them sequential. 
ondryland
Thanks to all of you for all you have done. |
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