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jataylor11 · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:43 pm Post subject: Question for Swift Vets

Beldar's calendar and the 21 days: I visited the Archives on 13 Sep 04 and reviewed the Market Time Spot Reports for March. It appears that Kerry's boat, PCF 94, may not have participate in any SeaLords missions after February 28 to March 13.

If memory serves, the 94 boat did participate in a couple of trips during this time, but there was no enemy engagement -- only destruction of some buildings, bunkers, and sampans. This is a 12 day gap of time during which it appears that PCF 94 may have been virtually "idle."
Being a mere civilian I am sure that "idle" is the wrong word and I extend all due apologies to the SwiftBoat Vets and all Veterans who would be rightly offended.

Maybe a Swift Vet can answer this question. What did you do if your boat did not go out on a mission?

There were 7 days between the 2nd PH and the Silver Star. I plan to look at the Market Time Spot Reports for these days to determine if Kerry was actually on any missions on these days.

It may turn out that Kerry's days "working" to medals ratio is fast approaching an extremely high level.

Does anyone remember when you guys clued Kerry in on the 3 PH and you go home provision?

ASPB · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject:

He submitted the letter on 17 March 69 and apparently was gone in a day or two.
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BrianC · PO2 Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 364

jataylor11 · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:09 pm Post subject:

My question is how were missions assigned. Who determined which PCF went on a mission? What did the other PCFs do that weren't going up river?

From the Market Time Spot Reports it appears that a couple of boats patrolled the coast while 3 to 5 others went up river on daily missions. There are ambush missions designed to catch sampans on the river at night. Also there were missions to take troops up river, or pick them up. But from my review of the MTSRs it looks like some boats were not assigned to a SeaLords operation everyday.

It looks like the 94 with Kerry aboard boat did not go out as much as the others and I am wondering if I am all wrong on this impression or if it is worth pursuing?

BrianC · PO2 Joined: 02 Jun 2004 Posts: 364

ASPB · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:17 pm Post subject:

mtboone · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:19 pm Post subject: Question for Swifty

Maybe a Swift Vet can answer this question. What did you do if your boat did not go out on a mission?

It would depend on what base you were at. I was in Qui Nhon and most of the time you would find us at the Acey Duecy club drinking, playing cards or in the village next to us drinking. Every so often we would go across the Harbor to Qui Nhon and go to the PX or find a local bar.

As far as what boats patroled what areas or rivers was up to Command.

mtboone · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject: Question for Swift Vet

If memory serves, the 94 boat did participate in a couple of trips during this time, but there was no enemy engagement -- only destruction of some buildings, bunkers, and sampans. This is a 12 day gap of time during which it appears that PCF 94 may have been virtually "idle."

I show patrols on March 1, March 10 and then on March 13th where they encountered action. They may have made routine Coastal patrols were nothing was observed.

docford · Lt.Jg. Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 149

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the question that jataylor really wants answered is - what did the boat crew do during non-operational time. If that is the question, based on my later Navy experience, the time was probably spent training, catching up on paperwork and performing PMS (preventive maintenance) on equipment. It is also possible that the boat was taken off patrol duty for repair.
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HMC (SW) USN

jataylor11 · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:15 pm Post subject:

Kerry was mercenary and a medal hunter. The question is just how outrageous he was in this pursuit. Beldar set up a calendar on his web site showing the time frame of Kerry's medals. To paraphrase, Beldar asked the question was Kerry slacking during the non-medal days. Yesterday, I saw the Market Time Spot Reports for March 69. My review indicated that Kerry's boat did not go out on mission from after the Silver Star day (28 Feb) to the Bronze Star/PH3 day (13 Mar). I think the one of two days his boat may have gone out during this time period were days when with no enemy encounters, ergo no "hero" days just "war criminal" days spent buring villages, blowing up bunkers, etc, etc.

My thesis is that Kerry applied for (earned) medals on the days when he encounter any enemy. This would be even more damaging than the 21 days to gather the medals.

I have not read Tour of Duty. I have not read the MTSRs from January or February. This was just my woman's intuition from reading the March reports and Beldar's site.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and plays in the water .....

Kerry says his experience in Vietnam is what qualifies him to be POTUS. I want to know just how mercenary he is.

mtboone · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: Question for Swift Vets

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the question that jataylor really wants answered is - what did the boat crew do during non-operational time. If that is the question, based on my later Navy experience, the time was probably spent training, catching up on paperwork and performing PMS

When we came off patrol, we refueled, reloaded ammo, clean weapons and the boat. If it was time to change the oil we did that then. The Officer would go up to the Division Office to do his thing. For us it was time off until the next patrol and we never did any training. The next morning we would go get the chow for the patrol, we ate pretty well and we would not likely see our boat officer until it was time to get underway. He would go to the Officers club and we would go to our club. Was not too much to PM, two radios, one radar and the engines.

one more captins mast · LCDR Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Posts: 438 Location: Texas

Did Rassman have a duty station in Sagon

or did he have a Billit out in the "bunnies"

or at their base,

like who was in charge of him , ect,
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the strange mr aj

baldeagl · PO3 Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 260 Location: Texas

I think there may be some misconceptions here. The division histories and the spot reports only highlighted days when there was significant action. Days that are "missing" from the reports do not necessarily indicate that a boat was doing nothing. They may well have been patrolling but just didn't see any action or anything worth reporting.

You also have to keep in mind that the boats had two crews, so while one crew was resting the other could be patrolling. You can't really tell much from the reports about who was involved unless they are named, and you can't make any judgments about what people did or didn't do based on them, except for what is documented.

In general you can assume that no report == no action, but no report != no patrol.
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USN OST-6 68-74
http://antimedia.blogspot.com/

jataylor11 · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject:

Thank you. That was my concern. It appears from reading the MTSP that the action did not mean facing the enemy but included when stuff was destroyed without seeing any enemy. The boats that went out are listed on the MTSP.

What concerns me is that these MTSP list the boats that went out and those that were patroling the shore. So if the MTSP is just for action why are they including the boats that are patroling the shore.

But given your response --- no report = no action then my general thesis still stands --- every day Kerry saw the enemy he put in for a medal.

The 21 days to accumulate his medals bothers me. It bothers me even more if he actually put in for a medal each day he saw the enemy. I have never been shot at so I cannot judge, but I am of he belief that the medals are awarded for actions above and beyond the call of duty --- heroics in extraordinary circumstances.

Thurow's medal to save the 3 boat is heroic. I can see him in my mind jumping from boat to boat trying to help the other guys. Maybe I have watched Sergeant York too many times. But I think heroics falls some where closer to "Gary Cooper" than John Kerry.

If the medals were issued to boost morale then I would think that enlisted would get the medals not officers.

I understand that Hoffman shut him down with the PH1. I am sure that Kerry sensed a less than favorable environment at this point. Once Hoffman rotated out I suspect that the medal hunt was on. Kerry isn't stupid just oblivious to anyone else or how he may appear to others.

I do not mean to denegrate any of the medals awarded to any other person. It just strikes me that Kerry expected medals for everything he did. I wonder if Mama T gives him a little gold star every time he behaves?