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[Navyolsalt]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE SEP 14, 2004 17:48:35 ET XXXXX

TEXAS GUARD SECRETARY SURFACES: SAYS CBS DOCS 'FORGERIES', BUT STANDS BY ACCUSATIONS AGAINST BUSH

The DRUDGE REPORT has found Lt. Col. Jerry Killian's former secretary who claims that the Texas Air National Guard documents offered by CBS in its 60 MINUTES II report filed by Dan Rather last week are indeed 'forgeries'.

"I did not type these particular memos. I typed memos like these," Knox told the DRUDGE REPORT from her home in Houston.

"I typed memos that had this information in them, but I did not type these memos. There are terms in these memos that are not Guard terms but that are Army terms. They use the word "Billets". I think they were using that to refer to the slot. That would be a non-flying slot the way we would use it. And the style... they are sloppy looking."

But Marion Carr Knox stands by the accusations contained in the allegedly fraudulent documents that Bush skirted a medical and flight exam without suffering institutional repercussions.

"The information in these memos is correct -- like Killian's dealing with the problems."

"It was General Staudt, not then Lt. Colonel Hodges [who succeeded Staudt], that was putting on the pressure to whitewash Bush. For instance he didnt take his flight examination or his physical. And the pilots had to take them by their birthdays. Once in a while there would be a reason why a pilot would miss these things because some of them were commercial pilots. But they had to make arrangements to take their exams."

Knox speculated as to how she thought the forgeries were created saying, "My guess is that someone in the outfit got hold of the real ones and discussed it with a former Army person."

Knox worked for the Guard from 1957 until she retired in 1979, and she was Lt. Col. Killian's secretary during the time President Bush served in Texas.

Contacted by the DRUDGE REPORT Lt. Col. Killian's son Gary, who also served in the unit during the same period, responded, "I know Marion Carr. I remember her as a sweet lady who reminded me then of a dear aunt."

"But if Staudt had put pressure on my dad, there would have been a blow-up -- instantly. It was one of the reasons they got along so well. They had a mutual respect for one another."

"As has been pointed out by so many others, then Col Staudt had been out of the unit for 18 months. And I stand by my previous comments regarding my dad's admiration for Lt. Bush and his regard for him as an officer and pilot -- which was exemplary."

Knox told the DRUDGE REPORT that she did not vote for Bush in 2000 because he is 'unqualified' for the job, and does not intend to vote for him in 2004, either.

"Bush was not the only person of privilege who had a spot in the Guard. Senator [Lloyd] Bensen's nephew was in headquarters. There was a big jewelery store, Gordons. Their son was in the Guard. The owner of Batelstein's, a posh department store in the area, his son was in. The other kids couldn't get in like that. Hugh Roy Cullen's grandson was also in. He was a big oil man."

Knox, however, did have some kind words about then Lt. Bush.

"[Bush] was always pleasant and gentlemanly to me," she said. "I never noticed him not being respectful. I thought he was a nice young man and that he must have had very nice parents to produce a son as nice as he seemed to be."

Knox has been following the story since last week when the 60 MINUTES II broadcast aired, and on Friday she contacted the HOUSTON CHRONICLE wanting to tell her side of the story. Since then the DALLAS MORNING NEWS has also contacted her.

"What really hecked me off was when it was somebody on TV, associated with the White House, who said that all of this information was lies. And I got excited at the time because I knew that I had typed documents with this information because a person like Bush stood out from the others -- because of his association with his father."

Asked about reports that Lt. Col. Killian's wife and son saying he didn't type, Knox stated, "He didn't need to. He had me."

Knox explains that the August 18, 1973 date typed on one of the "forged" documents proves that they were faked. Group Commander Staudt, who allegedly had been putting pressure on Killian, retired in 1972.

To the best of her recollection, Knox explains that Staudt must have put pressure on Killian in 1972 -- the year in which he retired.

"If my father was going to type a CYA memo, which he didn't," Gary Killian responded. "He would have typed it himself because he wouldn't have wanted anyone to see it. But it's academic because Colonel Staudt had been out of the unit for 18 months -- as is well documented."

Contacted at his office in Bartlett, Texas, former Major Dean Roome, who served with Lt. Bush, responded to the Knox's recollection.

"If the memos are fraudulent, then why were they generated? Roome asked.

"Marion Carr Knox is validating what the rest of us are saying. She says once in a while a pilot would miss a physical because some of them were commercial pilots. I was also a commercial pilot with Continental Airlines. The clinic did not just open up for us to take a personal physical. The Flight Surgeons had to be there along with a full complement of medical personnel. We took our physical during the Uniformed Training Assembly (UTA) just like everyone else."

"The 'former Army person' she references is the person we believe may have created the fraudulent documents in an effort to injure President Bush. He has his own agenda and I doubt that he has any 'real ones' [documents].

Ms. Knox states emphatically that she is not acting for political motives, and has no formal relationship with any political party. She says she just wants to set the record straight.

Developing...

[DaveL]

so Knox essentially supports Dan Rather's position..."the content of the memos are correct" hmmmm

[1AD]

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Brit Hume on Fox, also just reported that one of Danny' Boy's experts apparently got his expertise by being a typewriter repairman in the 70's and the other got his start by doing "personality" and "character" analysis based upon the subjects handwriting. Sort of like reading bumps on the head. Speaking of bumps on the head has anyone checked Danny for a concussion?

[Navyolsalt]

Now if the secretary is telling the truth then who was it that re-typed these documents.....DNC, CBS, ???? in an obvious attempt to display that the content was correct?
Sincerely,
Navyolsalt

[dcornutt]

Hmmm.

When did Bush miss his physical? What date was it?

My understanding was, the physical in question wasnt' missed until after Staudt left. Am I incorrect on this? She's saying, by inference, that Staudt was still there when Bush missed his physical (hence the pressure to work it out). It's still not making sense.

[Navyolsalt]

dcornutt:
Yep a lot about this just does not add up! Someone recently typed these documents and for what reason? Where are the originals of the documents? If CBS had the originals then why didn't they use the originials? In any case CBS still does not look good in my opinion.
Sincerely,
Navyolsalt

[ASPB]

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

She repeats the assertion that Staudt was pressuring Killian - even though that's been debunked.

And then she comes up with this - this is priceless!!!

[Debs]

She says the memos are correct, but she does not address the main issue here - was Bush ordered to take a physical and then disobeyed the direct order? The memo states that Bush was ordered to report for a physical no later than May 14, 1972. But she states that they had until their birthdays to have a physical, and Bush's birthday is July 3. Her statements do not at all corroborate the accusation that Bush disobeyed a direct order, and that is the main point that has beem used against the President in these memos. Also, I think now that Staudt may come out and make a comment, as on some website I read that he was really angry and that he wanted to build an outhouse and take all the press people behind it and whoop their butts over this entire story. So I think we now may hear from him and the assertions she is making about him. What Knox has done is confirm the memos are forgeries

Debbie
_________________
"No greater love..."

[MACVJOE]

Couple points about the secertary. First she said she was not a Bush fan. Proably while there Bush did not pay enough attention to her. She has been only one from Command that has expressed this. Son, wife and fellow officer all said that Killian though highly of Bush and he would never done CYA Memo. We know he did not take physical. Physicals on birth month. Col mention as bring 'sugar coat' was gone 18 mo prior. Besides if Killian had secret file you bet his wife would have known or son. Basic FACT MEMOs fake. MEMOs FAKE therefore story FAKE.
_________________
Retired 86 Army
MACV Upper Delta 68-69

[Hammer2]

Consider this,
If CBS really spent 6 weeks looking into the memos, not to mention all the past research on other Bush documents, how could they possibly have missed this woman? She should have been one of the first people they talked to. Perhaps they heard the story from her, but couldn't find any memos to back her up. Without the memos, she would not be a credible source because she is anti-Bush. CBS then shopped the story around until they found someone who claimed to have the memos - that person is the Army guy she refers to.
Now that she is out, expect CBS to point to her as vindication. If she allows further interviews however, I think her story will break down in the details.
How did you know this? Who said what? Did you personally discuss this with Killian? What memos did you type? On what dates? Where are they now? Is the content of the forgeries exactly what was in the memos you typed?
This is going to be interesting!

But I do agree with the poster who felt sorry for her. She had no idea what was going to happen to her. I picture my own 74 year old Mother going through the media firestorm.
_________________
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
"An armed society is a polite society" - Thomas Jefferson
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

[ASPB]

[RobD]

She mentioned that she had an olympic typwriter that could do superscript th. Has this been looked at?
_________________
6 Year Navy

[Stacman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah! Typical liberal spin control. Let's go find another third party to vouche for the memos that didn't exist in his original file, but turned up years later. And also attest to what that dead person was thinking at the time 30 years ago. I'm half her age, and barely remember what I had for breakfast, much less what I had for dinner last night. It's amazing how sharp these memories are after all these years for some obscure events (at the time).

I'd also be interested in knowing her past voting records and who her circle of friends are...

[reconflyer]

Flight physical: Bush would have had until the last day of July to get it done (although it would have been ill-advised to wait until your last month, if something went wrong and you didn't get a signed 1042 you'd be grounded).

Ordering him to do it in May is silly, besides, no one orders aircrew to get a physical, we all know when we are due. Sometimes the flight surgeon's office will call if you are getting close and haven't scheduled a date.

I have never seen anything like a written order to report to the flight surgeon. I've heard some verbals "get your @$$ down to the flight surgeon, you're gonna expire in three weeks". Most of the time we are left to our own devices and most aircrew guys are either officers or enlisted adults who take care of business, and that would be active, guard or reserve.

I think it is all a bunch of horsesnit and that old lady, although she's admitting the memos in question are false, needs to shut her piehole. She was the CC's typist, and after that many years, I doubt she has crystal recognition of anything she typed 30 years ago, and sure, Bush's dad was a big wheel, but then look at all the other boys in the unit who's dads were big wheels.

And there you go, through the mist the old lady has proven that the memos are false and that she's a hack.

reconflyer
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Active duty AF 1986-Present
Enlisted Aircrew 1990-Present