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Debs
Lieutenant
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 228
Location: Lubbock, Texas
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 Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:24 am Post subject: |
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"I voted for it before I voted against it."
"The memos were true before they were phoney before they were true again."
Kerry speak. 
Debbie
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MJB
LCDR
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:30 am Post subject: Re: P.S. |
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| reconflyer wrote: | We use the term "billets" extensively to this day in the active duty Air Force. A "slot" is a slang term for billet.
There is always the discussion of "billets" (the number of "slots" on your unit manning document) and "bodies" (the number of actual faces you have looking back at you when you assemble your unit). Of course there are never enough bodies to fill all the billets. |
Ah...it's good to know some things don't change 
That terminology sounds soooo familiar!
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MJB
USAF '85-'92 |
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MJB
LCDR
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 425
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| spudhorse wrote: | Having said that -- Mrs. Knox has simply said 'this trash isn't the kind of work I'd do.' I believe her. She also said 'Col. Killian had me type up notes I put in a personal file.' I believe her. She might have an impression of the President as a bit of a troublemaker (Hey, does anyone remember Top Gun?). What I don't believe is that she'd so neatly be able to say | Quote: | | The information in these memos is correct -- like Killian's dealing with the problems. |
It's too pat. It's also very unprofessional to divulge the contents of Col. Killian's personal files. And (from the Dallas newspaper) | Quote: | | She said they accurately reflect the viewpoints of Lt. Col. Killian |
I haven't been in the military, but I can't imagine someone in her position making this statement. To represent her boss in this way breaks a confidentiality the two of them had over these many years. It's fishy to say the least. |
From what I've read of her statements, she doesn't sound like she's necessarily confirming the exact wording of the forgeries.
I took it to perhaps mean that she was confirming that there was discussion regarding an upcoming physical. I mean discussion in a more general sense, rather than a specific recollection of a specific discussion.
I would concur that admin folks often had a good grasp of the general sweep of unit operations - but weren't necessarily privy to the specifics...of the "whys" of the specifics.
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MJB
USAF '85-'92 |
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TEWSPilot
Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Maybe someone else has already raised this point, but if CBS thoroughly researched the memos prior to deciding to air the show, why is Ms Marion Carr Knox just now emerging -- on her own? Wouldn't common sense dictate that they attempt to contact her BEFORE they aired the show to ask her about the memos? If she had told THEM THEN what she is telling THE WHOLE WORLD NOW, would they still have run the show? Oh, yeah, I forgot, they also disregarded the advice of all but one of their "document experts", and even the one who originally "authenticated one signature" but none of the other issues about the memos is doing the Olympic backstroke.
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grandforker
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:44 am Post subject: Rather's source? |
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Here's a new theory. What if Marian Carr Knox is Dan Rather's "unimpeachable source?"
In the effort to dig up dirt on Bush, she would have been a natural person to seek out, especially after LTC Killian's death. She knew about the personal file that Killian's son and wife didn't know about. Unfortunately, she doesn't know what happened to it. (My guess is that it was destroyed as a matter of procedure following Killian's death.)
Not being a fan of the president, she might have been open to suggestions about what the file would have contained with regard to Bush's TANG service. I find it difficult to believe that of all the thousands of memos she probably typed, she conveniently remembers Killian's exact problems with Bush.
She says there were other "fortunate sons" in TANG. How is it that she happens to remember Bush, who she admits never gave her any reason to dislike him. It's not as if she thought, "He's the future president. I better make sure that whatever I type about him is seared -- seared! -- into my memory."
What if, after picking Ms. Knox's brain and planting some suggestions, someone decided to recreate The Long Lost Bush Memos? After all, a Democratic operative might reason that Ms. Knox told him what would have been in the file if it still existed. And he knew that Bush had his TANG files sanitized in 1997 or 1998.
So why not bring Ms. Knox's memories back to life? Under the circumstances, wouldn't it be justified? The memos could be passed on to Dan Rather at CBS. No need to mention that the documents are "dramatizations" and not the real thing. He'll probably never show them to anyone.
Oops.
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
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TEWSPilot
Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1235
Location: Kansas (Transplanted Texan)
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shadowy
Commander
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 301
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: |
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I think you experts better brace yourselves for the "real" memos to be discovered--now that they've had a chance to study up on how to make convincing ones.
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It's downright brilliant the way he's reserving his devastating intellect to spring it on us at exactly the right moment. |
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ondryland
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 35
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:59 am Post subject: quote]The memos are forgeries, but the CONTENT is REAL!?!?!? |
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quote]The memos are forgeries, but the CONTENT is REAL!?!?!?! [/quote]
This sounds like the basis for a brand new Michael Moore movie. 
Michael Moore, hmmmmmm?
ondryland
Thanks to all of you for all you have done. |
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James Byrd
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Knox has been following the story since last week when the 60 MINUTES II broadcast aired, and on Friday she contacted the HOUSTON CHRONICLE wanting to tell her side of the story. Since then the DALLAS MORNING NEWS has also contacted her.
"What really hecked me off was when it was somebody on TV, associated with the White House, who said that all of this information was lies. And I got excited at the time because I knew that I had typed documents with this information because a person like Bush stood out from the others -- because of his association with his father." |
Problem with that statementment is that nobody from the Whitehouse has commented on the documents one way or the other. Especially on Friday when she contacted the Houston Chronicle.
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VietnamVetsWife
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:03 am Post subject: |
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OK I might be reaching here, but this first paragraph sounds like she doesn't know him, Then read the 2nd one... Isn't this also odd?
| Quote: | | "[Bush] was always pleasant and gentlemanly to me," she said. "I never noticed him not being respectful. I thought he was a nice young man and that he must have had very nice parents to produce a son as nice as he seemed to be." |
| Quote: | | What really hecked me off was when it was somebody on TV, associated with the White House, who said that all of this information was lies. And I got excited at the time because I knew that I had typed documents with this information because a person like Bush stood out from the others -- because of his association with his father." |
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msindependent
Vice Admiral
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 891
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:38 am Post subject: |
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"Let's get serious for a moment! Bush was not required to take a physical until (latest date) 31 July 1972. So on May 4th 1972 Mrs. Knox is writing a memo for Killian saying Bush is ordered to take a physical that's not even yet required. By Air Force and TexANG regs he had 3 month to take it with the last date being the last day of his birth month....July."
Bingo |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:10 am Post subject: |
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If you want the definitive answer to the Bush AWOL Question including links to the actual records here's where you find it.
http://flyunderthebridge.blogspot.com/
Print out a copy including the referenced documents and you'll never lose this argument again....unless you waste your time talking to moonbats. 
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Debs
Lieutenant
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 228
Location: Lubbock, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: |
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ASPB,
Thanks, a great find - a clear and concise explanation of the points Bush received. Also I did not know that Bush's assignment to Alabama was for no pay - explains why there were no pay stubs from that time. Thanks.
Debbie
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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Rather's source? |
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| grandforker wrote: | Here's a new theory. What if Marian Carr Knox is Dan Rather's "unimpeachable source?"
In the effort to dig up dirt on Bush, she would have been a natural person to seek out, especially after LTC Killian's death. She knew about the personal file that Killian's son and wife didn't know about. Unfortunately, she doesn't know what happened to it. (My guess is that it was destroyed as a matter of procedure following Killian's death.)
Not being a fan of the president, she might have been open to suggestions about what the file would have contained with regard to Bush's TANG service. I find it difficult to believe that of all the thousands of memos she probably typed, she conveniently remembers Killian's exact problems with Bush.
She says there were other "fortunate sons" in TANG. How is it that she happens to remember Bush, who she admits never gave her any reason to dislike him. It's not as if she thought, "He's the future president. I better make sure that whatever I type about him is seared -- seared! -- into my memory."
What if, after picking Ms. Knox's brain and planting some suggestions, someone decided to recreate The Long Lost Bush Memos? After all, a Democratic operative might reason that Ms. Knox told him what would have been in the file if it still existed. And he knew that Bush had his TANG files sanitized in 1997 or 1998.
So why not bring Ms. Knox's memories back to life? Under the circumstances, wouldn't it be justified? The memos could be passed on to Dan Rather at CBS. No need to mention that the documents are "dramatizations" and not the real thing. He'll probably never show them to anyone.
Oops. |
I hear you, but why would she have copies, or worse, originals of Killians PERSONAL file? And as you say, why would she remember Bush out of the thousands of other pilots on the base over the course of her service? All the testimony of others that knew Bush said that he just fit in, and made no mention of his family.
Your remarks remind me of the Gerald Amirault story, where the child psychologist suggested (planted) thoughts of "evil clowns" etc in the minds of little children under his care (later disproven). Maybe a little "coaching" in an admittedly anti-Bush mind was done here. Who is going to dispute some nice old lady (besides me of course!)?
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Everytime he had a choice, Kerry chose to side with communists rather than the United States. |
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