SwiftVets.com

[factman]

Listed below are three distinct American voting groups which are listed in order of size, smallest first and largest last.

Voter Group #1- Service personnel who served during the Vietnam War Era and would be considered Vietnam War veterans, and their families.

Voter Group #2- All others who served in the armed forces of the United States in all wars other than the Vietnam War, as well as periods of peacetime between wars, and their families.

Voter Group #3- All other American voters, other than those included in Voter Groups #1 and #2.

Now, here are three charges, all substantiated, about events and actions relating to John Kerry during the Vietnam War Era.

Charge #1- John Kerry made false war crime assertions against service personnel who served in Vietnam. As a result of John Kerry's false assertions most Vietnam veterans were maligned as misfits, addicts, and baby killers.

Charge #2- John Kerry misrepresented his record during his brief four month stint of duty as an officer in the Swift boat operations in Vietnam.
As a result of his embellishment of his wartime exploits he received medals that were not deserved, and it resulted in his being able to leave Vietnam far short of the normal tour of duty.

Charge #3- John Kerry, while still an active duty Navy officer, consciously, and not in the heat and fog of combat, volunteered to, and did personally pilot organizers and speakers to antiwar rallies on October 14 and 15, 1969, three months before he was relieved from active duty in January,1970.

Now, assume a group such as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT), has as its objective informing American voters about John Kerry's past actions and events during the Vietnam War Era that relate to his being unfit to command. Then ask, in what order would each of the three charges relating to Kerry resonate with and influence the three voting group as to why they would concur that John Kerry is unfit to command.

Undoubtably, the matchups that readers will make will vary with what voter group they are in. For instance, it would be reasonable that a Vietnam War Era veteran, from Voter Group #1, and their family members would go with the Kerry charges in the order of #1, #2, #3, or possibly #1, #3, #2.

I'm a Korean War Era army infantry veteran, which puts me in Voter Group #2. I would list the Kerry charges in the order of #3, #2, #1. If asked why this order, I would fall back on the argument that Charge #1, although egregious, is primarily a Vietnam veteran dogfight and I don't have have a dog in that fight, and Charge #2, the exaggeration of one's war exploits probably takes place in all wars, although not on the scale of John Kerry. However, Charge #3 really gives me ample reason to consider John Kerry unfit to command. I would constantly have to ask myself how I could trust a man to be my commander-in-chief when he has demonstrated that as an active duty officer in wartime, he nonchalanly dismissed the fact that tens of thousands of fellow servicemen were fighting in Vietnam, and hundreds were being wounded and killed, while he personally piloted protesters to antiwar rallies. This will forever be unforgiveable.

What follows is my evaluation of how the three voter groups would list the gravity of the three charges against Kerry as they relate to his being unfit to command:

Voter Group #1: Charges #1, #2, #3
Voter Group #2: Charges #3, #2, #1
Voter Group #3: Charges #3, #2, #1

I certainly could be wrong. However, if my evaluation is correct, remember that Voter Groups #2 and #3 are vastly greater than Voter Group #1. If the objective is getting one's point out to the greatest number of voters, then attention must be paid to the demographics of the voters. Messages, other than those that play to the choir must be considered.

Comments welcome, and I hope the SBVT are monitoring any responses.

[mangdawg]

Korea / #1, #2, #3

[Fort Campbell]

My son is 30 years old and therefore in Group Number 3. he has told me that for him what Kerry did right after returning from Vietnam (Charge number 1) really has no significance for him. He understands how the relevance would be much stronger for those of us who lived through that time period. Charge number 2 does bother him as he is quite patriotic and has many friends in the military. Charge number 3 (which I believe is a possible felony offense) would bother him the most.

So for Group Number 3 I believe you have your priorities correct.

[Shane's PopPop]

#1, #2, #4, #3.
With #4 being throwing away his medals, I mean ribbons no wait they weren't mine. Did you know I served in Vietnam?
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This space for rent!

[rb325th]

I am in Groub #2, as a Veteran of the U.S. Military Kerrys actions during and Post Vietnam tell me much of his character. Of course, left out were his trips to Paris (one his campaign admits to the other they don't).
When I look at the lies he spewed, the actions he took part in, and the collaberation with the enemey it is enough to make me not want to see him elected.
However there is a huge list of other issues that many of the Other Voters can look to, if for some reason those above are not enough. His lack of a record in the Senate, his waffling and flip flopping on every major issue we face today, etc...
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U.S. Army 1983-1995, 11C1P/11H2P NBTDT

[Steve Z]

Maybe the next SBVT ads should be tailored to Group #3, which are more numerous than active military or veterans, especially since the U.S. has volunteer armed forces. I know that SBVT was founded by veterans, but to have the maximum effect against Kerry in the election, the ads should be relevant to Group #3, to which I belong.

Kerry's recommendation of rapid withdrawal from Vietnam (and its consequences) and his negotiating with the enemy will have more effect on these voters than debates about medals or whether he was in Cambodia.

I don't know if SBVT are saving these ads for late October, so that Kerry doesn't have the time to react, but I hope they will soon be waiting in the wings. They will also have to be aired early enough to give VOTERS and the friendly media (talk radio, Fox News, bloggers) time to react to them!

Right now, Kerry is down in the polls, and several Gore states (PA, WI, maybe MN, IA, and NJ) seem to be turning to Bush, but Kerry should not be given the chance to come back.
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The traitor will crater!

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

I'm in Group #2, and of the three, his actions most despicable to me were those listed in #1.

I will never forget or forgive what John Kerry said about my older brothers and sisters. When I'm a hundred, he will still be "That traitorous ******* who actually had the gall to think he could be President."

The other things are very important - the second most important thing to me being his actions with regard to the POW/MIA committee that he chaired in the Senate.

Who was the last man to die in Vietnam?

I'm certain that whoever it was, he died AFTER Kerry's cousin made those billion $$$ contracts with our enemies.


:::spit:::
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

[Shane's PopPop]

[SooZQ]

I am in group #3.

A couple of months ago I might
have listed my responseas #3, #2, #1...
but after carefully reading lots and lots of material
on this site and over on wintersoldier, and stolen
honor, etc. I actually feel that you have misrepresented
points #1 and #3 by failing to show all the results
of his actions. Now that I have seen the consequences
of his traitorous deeds, I could answer in no other way
than...#1, #3, #2.

Those of you in groups 1 and 2 have it over those of us
in group 3, in that you have a knowledge base that
lets you understand Kerry's crimes/consequences more
quickly. It takes a lot of dedication to educate one's self
in understanding the full dynamics of the SBVT issues.
The past three weeks I have let a lot of my life go on hold
in order to digest everything, and I still have a way to go.

But I am in complete agreement with SteveZ:

[Stevie]

I'm in group 3

the way I see it, SBVTS got it right....


grp 1 was most affected- and know the most about it -

get them onboard first....

grp - 2 would follow, being military.... get them onboard 2nd...

group 1 can speak to it from their guts.... and help educate some of

grp2 and grp 3

grp 1 and 2 both help educate the group 3 people who didn't know, didn't remember, etc

group 1 and 2 also bring with them family members and friends so that

group is really larger than you think!
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

[USAFBratToo]

Factman, you left out Charge #4 - His record of traiterous betrayal of our troops in Vietnam does NOT stop in the Vietnam era. As a US Senator in the early 90s, he sold out the PIAs/MIAs and their families in order to allow trade relations to be normalized with Communist Vietnam; a year later his family's business, Colliers International (headed by his first cousin Stuart Forbes who was also head of his "blind" trust) secured a multi-billion dollar long term exclusive contract to rebuild their infrastructure, a contract they still have.

This is very well documented in many SBVT threads. Use the search function at the top of the forum page, enter the three words, colliers vung tau and select "All words" and Submit.

An ad revealing this to the voters will take the pattern of duplicity and betrayal Kerry showed in the 60s and 70s, illustrated in previous Swift ads, and bring it right up to the present day. That, IMO, is what's lacking in the Swift ads so far - a direct tie to what Kerry is doing today. And this is it. This is more thoroughly discussed in a thread on Swift Boats about "You've Got to See This: Kerry as Gravedigger."

[cipher]

I'm a #1, and I'd rank them as #1, #3, #2. His wilfull and wanton abuse of the system to CREATE the situations that would eventually undermine the moral and give aid and comfort to the enemy FAR outweigh any action he took in-country. His medals are not that big an issue, other than they establish his reputation as a serial liar and his willingness to steal valor, and set up the FIRST desertion from the US military. #2 is a catalyst, not an effect.
_________________
USMC 69-72, 7th Comm, 3rd MarDiv, FMFPAC
US Army 75-79, 97th Sig, SHAPE, NATO
Arkansas National Guard 79
Defense contractor for US Navy, SSPO, SP-20, SP-24, OP-12 84-92

[theflickster]

I would fall into group #1 (as a family member of one (father) that served in Korea and Vietnam) based on your definition. Due to my age, I would move myself to group #2 as Vietnam is something that I remember as a small child. (keeping in mind that many of us who were young children in the late 60's/70's did not study Vietnam in school it was a taboo subject, touched on only briefly)

Charge #1 has the most impact for me followed closely by Charge #3. I also think that there should be focus on his meetings in Paris (Treason has a much bigger impact, and I notice that within my age group). Charge #2 does not hold as much heat for me.

I was showing the various SBVT ads to my assistant. She is young just 21, without military background of any sort. She didn't understand most of the Vietnam ads and questioned several items in them, but they didn't have any real impact. The ad that hit home the most for her was the most recent one that showed his words contradicting each other. I think she would put a low priority on the first three charges and a high one on his contradictions.
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If Kerry is the answer.... It must have been a STUPID question.

[SooZQ]

USAFBratTOO wrote:

[dmackto]