SwiftVets.com

coatandthai · Seaman Recruit Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

First let me say that the loss of a single life, not to mention the 700+ who have died in combat in Iraq, is terrible. But I am very surprised that the number is so ... dare I say it ... low.

How can Iraq be compared to Vietnam, or called a "quagmire" where we've achieved regime change and are on the way to elections with "only" 735 casualties. The US would have had to surrender rather than take on Japan or Germany in WWII if that was the standard. Lincoln would have allowed the South to secede. Indeed, we'd probably still be ruled by the King of England.

Maybe I'm just too crude but I wish Bush would take them on on this point.

Chuck Z Ombie AC2000 · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:55 am Post subject:

1000 dead is too many but in a war people die. Our culture has seen too many rambo movies where 1 guy wipes out an entire army in hand to hand combat and only receives a few scratches but is otherwise ok.

We have a country of 300 million and in the grand scheme of things 1000 dead seems very small. how many died on Omaha Beach ? 25,000? How many died on Wake Island? I am so glad we did not have the media of today covering the second world war. We would all be speaking german by now.
_________________
John Kerry, R.I.P. (Rot In Paris)

dmackto · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:44 am Post subject:

My mother and I were discussing this the other day and she brought up a good point.

She said that it would be interesting to know how many people in the same average age group would have died in the same time frame if they had been at home.

A large segment of our service members are young men. Young men are notoriously reckless and tend to engage in dangerous activity. We have 1,000 dead out of how many total over what period of time compared to what # would statistically have died without a war.

I don't have the numbers and havn't had time to run them down but it would bring the 1000 down significantly I believe. Maybe it woudlnt be a politically correct thing to say though as it might come off as seeming to belittle the personal loss and nobody means to do that.
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal

This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill

Guest · Last edited by Guest on Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total

JCBoston · Seaman Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 185

3000+ died in one single day on September 11, 2001.

Navy_Navy_Navy · Admin Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5777

I find it ghoulish that the leftists are marking this as some sort of milestone.

Was the 1000th any more loved and missed than the first? Or the twenty-seventh?

Was the 632nd less valuable, less mourned?

We love them all - we pray for their families, we grieve them all equally. We mourn the civilians, too.

This macabre focus on a number is very reminiscent of the counting of the body bags in Vietnam. It worked back then and if we're not careful, it can work, now.
_________________
~ Echo Juliet ~
Altering course to starboard - On Fire, Keep Clear
Navy woman, Navy wife, Navy mother

blue9t3 · Admiral Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 1246 Location: oregon

Chuck, I believe it was 2,600 died within the first 20 minutes. 9-11 was 2800 in one hour.
For myself, I dont care if it takes 1000 years to get some pay-back!
_________________
MOPAR-BUYER

Stevie · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:40 am Post subject:

I agree with everyone.... and have thought the same...

I even knew at one time how many died in Desert Storm and figured it out with the length of that war to the number died in Iraq and length of time so far.... I forget it now...but if it were 100 died in 1 month war = a lot more died in that war per month than in this one...

seems like a terrible way to look at it... but puts it into perspective.

Every time I hear that another military person has died, I feel like another anchor has been attached to my heart...

If kerry types have their way, I guess we'll just all hide out in our homes and hope no terrorists find us! forget normal life as we know it... no shopping, no ball games, no travel, no eating out.... just hide at home and quiver in fear !
_________________
Stevie
Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage
morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should
be arrested, exiled or hanged.

Wing Wiper · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:11 am Post subject:

To put it in perspective, the KIA in Iraq so far is about equal to the number of Marines killed taking Tarawa (1 square mile) from the Japanese in World War 2. That took 3 days. If you ever meet, or know, any Marines that served in that campaign, they are real heroes. The war in Iraq is far from what's being portrayed by the media. It's hot, dirty, tense and long, but the casualty rate is nothing like either World War, Korea or Vietnam. It's a continuous low-level grind against a guerilla force that is slowly but surely being run down and exterminated. We'll win this fairly soon if the media and liberals don't convince the public otherwise. My opinion, but I've been looking at a LOT of reports.

coatandthai · Seaman Recruit Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Total deaths from combat in Iraq are around 786, while total deaths overall (including accidents, illness, etc.) are 1034. Obviously far too many deaths and a terrible toll for the families. However, just as Reagan was able to articulate the dream that the Berlin Wall would someday come down, and that we would someday be free from MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) with the USSR, so does Bush dream of a second democracy in the Middle East (after Israel). Of course, the Democrats scoff at this, believing that human nature is fixed and that "these people" cannot accept freedom.

GM1954 · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject: Civilian Death rates

A quick Google search revealed the following:

"Heart failure and Malignant neoplasms cause over half of all deaths of people over 45. Accidents and adverse effects resulting from the accidents is the leading cause of death for people under 45 to 1 year of age. Of all the causes of death due to accidents, the leading cause is motor vehicle accidents. Motor vehicle accidents remain a high risk for all age groups.

From 1-4 the death rate per 100,000 people is 38.3
From 5- 14 the death rate per 100,000 people is 22
From 15- 24 the death rate per 100,000 people is 90.3
From 25- 44 the death rate per 100,000 people is 177.8
From 45- 64 the death rate per 100,000 people is 708
For people over 65 the death rate per 100,000 people is 5,071.40 "

It's unfortunate that we have to rationalize our presence and success in Iraq by body count. But as a side note: none of the detail from above included death due to terrorism. Keep in mind, some people in the middle east region want to cause us some serious harm and the technology exists to do just that. We are in Iraq to prevent "terrorism" from being listed as a major category in the US death rate.

fr11 · Seaman Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 154

A few weeks ago, I was reading an article in U.S. News about Ulysses S. Grant. Here's a fact that really helps put things in perspective:

During one of the Civil War's bloodier battles, Grant lost over 1000 men in less than 1 hour. He lost more men in 1 hour than we've lost during the entire Iraq war!

Don't get me wrong - every soldier lost is a tragedy. But compared with history, we're doing very well in Iraq. I just wish there was a way for Bush to bring up this point without causing a huge outcry.

Nathanyl · PO3 Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 280

The Battle of the Bulge had 81,000 American Casualties including 19,000 Americans killed most of that died in the first 3 days

The Battle of Normandy (D-Day) had around 53,700 deaths among the allies.

The Battle of Okinowa 12,500 Americans killed.

WWII deaths:

http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html

The US had 407,000 military deaths

Although of course any death is sad the Battle for Iraq is has to be one of the most lopsided victories in history. The left wing's attempts to compare this to Vietnam is ludicrous and it's going to kill any slight chance they had of beating Bush.

jataylor11 · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject:

FF1047 · Lieutenant Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 222

Caution: Anti-Terrorist Rant to follow

First, our troops are volunteers and we should honor their sacrifice to the cause of freedom and liberty. Every one lost is the ultimate patriot.

America has a black heart for it enemies and a white heart for its friends.
I believe any American death at the hands of these terrorists needs to be avenged 100 times over ...
By my count we are due about 40,000 terrorist heads on a pike.
We are not dealing with rational civilized people, they understand terror so we should show them the true meaning of terror.

I say, every one we kill, wrap him up in a pig skin and bury him at night.

We are the only nation to drop nuclear weapons on civilians, funny how some folks still think we are "soft".
_________________
JJC
USNA class of 1980