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AZ3
Ensign
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 53
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | I was under the impression the SwiftVets were for Truth. Sometimes the truth does not agree with us. |
You seem to imply that you came here seeking truth and were disappointed in what you saw. I, however, do not believe that implication, and if you were to be honest I bet you would admit you came here already determined to oppose what you read, however it was presented, however true or untrue it may be.
Please don't say you came here with an open mind, sir. That flag ain't flyin'.
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Helantisubron 4, 1970-1974, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club member, Shellback, American. Nuff said. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kyle, the whole basis for this thread is a lie. Real Vietnam Vets do not act like these clowns do. They are just RNC fakes and Wannabes |
This coming from those who won't supply any proof whatsoever of their service? I'll gladly compare my DD-214s, EERs, pictures or whatever else I have.
Oh yes, I prefer to think of myself as a recovering Democrat. |
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kyleparr
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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I was searching for the truth, but noone here was willing to hear something that disagrees with their view. People in this group are decided.
I have never been in the service. I do not think it matters one bit to this discussion. My father is a retired Col in the AF, my stepdad a retired Col. in the COrps, my brother-in-law a Commander in the Navy, and my grandfather-in-law a retired Admiral. I have grown up around the Military.
A lot of you are jack asses, just like every other profession. Being in the service does not endow you with special rights folks, rather it endows you with special obligations. There is a reason our founding fathers put in the right to bear arms, and a lot of it was to control the military when they got out of hand. Our Founding fathers viewed your profession as a necessary evil, and made sure that the military was controlled by civilians.
I honor your service as far as it goes. I appreciate the freedom that we have as a result of fighting forces. I get scared shitless when the military starts exerting its will domestically. Name one military run country that is worth a crap?
You hate John Kerry for personal reasons. That is fine. I would like to see an honest assessment of what he said and what is true. Are all of you contending there were no atrocities? No rapes? No villages burned? Tell me. Tell me what really happened.
In another thread here someone mentioned the punishment of the soldiers involved in prisoner abuse. I think they are fall guys for people up the food chain. People that will never be punished. What about that? Makes me wonder about other claims.
I am American and I am damn proud of it. I am not, though, so bold as to think that the rest of the world is stupid and backwards and that I owe them no cooperation or respect. the way the folks talk in here, it is no wonder we are villified. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I was searching for the truth, but noone here was willing to hear something that disagrees with their view. People in this group are decided. |
kyleparr, there is a lot of truth here being posted by members on both sides. It’s the ‘BS’ from both sides that you must wade through. As for your part about “People in this group are decided.”, what did you expect? The purpose of this board is to basically get information out by a group of Vietnam Veterans concerning why they feel that John F. Kerry should not be elected as President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief of this nation’s armed forces.
You are more than free to voice your opinion, post your ‘facts’, and engage in your own version of what you consider the truth. But, as long as you do it within the rules you agreed to when you became a member of his site.
| Quote: | | I have never been in the service. I do not think it matters one bit to this discussion. My father is a retired Col in the AF, my stepdad a retired Col. in the COrps, my brother-in-law a Commander in the Navy, and my grandfather-in-law a retired Admiral. I have grown up around the Military. |
You do not have to be a Veteran to post on this part of the board, but you are not allowed to post in the ‘Veterans Only’ part of this board. Your being a Veteran matters not on this section of this board, nor to take part in discussions and debates here, or to add your own thread about what topic or issue you’d like to discuss or debate with others.
| Quote: | | A lot of you are jack asses, just like every other profession. Being in the service does not endow you with special rights folks, rather it endows you with special obligations. There is a reason our founding fathers put in the right to bear arms, and a lot of it was to control the military when they got out of hand. Our Founding fathers viewed your profession as a necessary evil, and made sure that the military was controlled by civilians. |
Your use of the term, ‘jack asses’, is your opinion of the others here. And you are right, no member here who is a Veteran has any ‘special rights’ here on this board, except for the area that is to be ‘Veterans Only’! Just what ‘special obligations’ do we endow because we are Veterans? I’d like to hear your ideas.
The reason of the 2nd amendment, was to protect the people from an ‘oppressive’ government such as the British employed in the new colonies. And their military was an arm of that oppressive government. The purpose was not to protect the citizens from the ‘military’. That amendment was created so that future citizens of this land, both civilian and military alike could defend themselves if the government of the United States of America ever became oppressive as Great Britain did. Learn your history before you post what is incorrect information.
| Quote: | | I honor your service as far as it goes. I appreciate the freedom that we have as a result of fighting forces. I get scared shitless when the military starts exerting its will domestically. Name one military run country that is worth a crap? |
Your statement is at odds with itself. You honor our service, but! You appreciate the freedom that we have as a result of fighting services, but! As for the military exerting it’s will domestically, can you provide examples and links to when that has happened? Also, your last statement needs to be explained, what nations around the world are ‘military ran’?
| Quote: | | You hate John Kerry for personal reasons. That is fine. I would like to see an honest assessment of what he said and what is true. Are all of you contending there were no atrocities? No rapes? No villages burned? Tell me. Tell me what really happened. |
Numerous members of not only the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, but also other Veterans and non Veterans here have consistently posted that they do not hate John F. Kerry. They are against him being President and Commander-in-Chief of this nation. I’m sure that some do hate him, but more than likely, that number is very few. The majority of the members here are simply voicing their opinion on the upcoming Presidential Election and the candidate involved. That is their right not only as Vietnam Veterans, Veterans, but also as American Citizens. That is also your right as an American Citizen. As long as you obey the rules and regulations here, you should have no problems here.
No one here has ever said that murders, atrocities, rapes, violations of free-fire zones, and/or other war crimes did not happen either in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia or Thailand. They happened, and both sides in that conflict/war engaged in them. What these people are saying, protesting and the main reason for their stand against John Kerry is that the actions, words, deeds and testimony exhibited by John Kerry in front of the Congress of the United States, in media interviews, in books, and in protest(s) in numerous anti-war rallies around the United States. They honestly and openly feel that the information put out by John Kerry was lies, false, and fabricated to accomplish one goal only, and that goal was to discredit the government of this nation, and the Vietnam Veterans who served in Southeast Asia.
They honestly feel that what Kerry and others did hurt Vietnam Veterans for the last 30 something years, and even to this day there are those in this nation that still believe that each and every Vietnam Veteran engaged in murder, rapes, assaults, burned villages, killed livestock, shot at anyone they saw, and other atrocities and war crimes. Did things like this happen? Yes, they did, and that is wrong actions for troops of any nation, us included. But, these did not happen in the volume that Kerry’s deeds, actions, words and testimony made the American Public and Media believe.
| Quote: | | In another thread here someone mentioned the punishment of the soldiers involved in prisoner abuse. I think they are fall guys for people up the food chain. People that will never be punished. What about that? Makes me wonder about other claims. |
All individuals involved in abuse of any prisoners, either covered or not covered by the Geneva Convention Rules should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. And that includes anyone in the chain of command from the lowest E-1 all the way up to the President, but “ONLY” if the proof is found in an investigation that the person to be punished is involved in either the abuse of prisoners, the giving of any orders to abuse any prisoner, or having the knowledge of any prisoners being abused and doing nothing to stop it. But wait till the investigations are all over before you make up your mind, and pronounce those that you do not like or disagree with, “GUILTY!”.
| Quote: | | I am American and I am damn proud of it. I am not, though, so bold as to think that the rest of the world is stupid and backwards and that I owe them no cooperation or respect. the way the folks talk in here, it is no wonder we are villified. |
You should be proud that you are an American! There is nothing wrong with that, and it’s as it should be. As for your second statement, that is simply your opinion, and only your opinion. Can you provide proof that others here have said that they believe that the rest of the world is ‘stupid’ and ‘backwards’ and that they owe them no cooperation or respect! If you cannot provide proof for your accusation, then it is simply just your opinion, and others here are well within their rights to disagree with you!
Woof!
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"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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