SwiftVets.com

[GM1954]

Where do the RPGs come from?

A week or so ago, someone posted this question. Rather, the question should be, where does the money come from to replenish the munitions stocks used against our troops in Iraq? It is not out of bounds to speculate that a small portion of Middle East crude oil sales filters its way into the hands of Islamic extremists. Nonetheless, every drop of gasoline we buy results in funds sent to the Middle East.

After the attacks on New York three years ago, I elected not to buy any vehicle that requires the use of gasoline. Instead, I purchased a new 2002 Chevrolet Tahoe. Most GM products with the standard V8 on a ½ ton truck chassis run on ethanol up to an 85% concentration. In fact about four million US, Japanese and European cars on US highways today will burn ethanol. You’ll know if you have one of these cars if you see E85 on or near the gas cap.

Why not burn a fuel that enriches citizens of our country? Ethanol is produced from corn. Corn is a product grown in the United States. One acre of corn will produce enough ethanol to run the average car for one year. I have used this stuff for two years now. The mileage is identical to gasoline, the oil is clean after two thousand miles of driving and net CO2 production is near zero (if you believe in the global warming thing). The ironic thing is, corn is as cheap as dirt and your tax dollars pay farmers to pull productive farmland out of production and place it, long term, into wetlands. While ethanol is currently produced by distillation of corn, corn production is somewhat finite. However, almost any plant or biomass product that contains a sugar can be distilled into ethanol. This means the ethanol supply in this country is almost limitless.

Each one of us has an obligation to support our country and the men and women fighting a war half way around the world. Something as painless as filling your cars tank with ethanol (E85) might go a long way in slowing funds into terrorist hands. So, go ahead, drive your Suburban. It's not on every corner, but find the closest station you can that stocks ethanol fuel.

[SangRun Hunter]

I didn't read your whole post, but I remember the other post too.

In a book by Karl Zinsmesiter he states there are something like 6400 or more ammo dumps in Iraq. It was in one of his books either "Boots on the Ground" or Dawn over Baghdad.

Not all of the ammo dumps were secured in teh begining due to teh scope of the issue.

I highly recommend both books as they give a great view of what is really going on over there.

Let us not forget it took 10 years to get Germany under control
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Mad as Hell!

[300zxuser]

At first I wasn't sure if you were actually concerned about RPG's or ethenal. Let me give you some insight (for whatever it is worth)
RPG's are a Chinese invention, made by Chinese. Since the cost of labor and materials are minimal, China will make them available to countries needing these highly innacurate launchers. For every one propelled ,20 miss their mark. They have no range to speak of, maybe less than a block (city) so it takes virtually no money, just a cause and if you notice that is the most powerful weapon they have in their arsenal. Besides jerry rigged road side bombs.

Ethanol, while a good idea has not caught on here in the southwest. Should be cheaper and cleaner to run. Wish I had more to say about that, but I don't know that much about it out here. Especially since we have no suppliers of such fuel. It must be a back east thing because from Texas to California on I-40 NO ONE sells ethanol. A popular misconception is that oil is used for funding terrorist activities. Read the book Sangran mentioned. The oil being pumped in Iraq is being sold on the world market and pumped back into their ecomony. Yes we are rebuilding their country, and we are beginning to get paid back with the money we used from our own coffers. So far, the only benefit is we got rid of a tyrant.
Not bad idea either.
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Bob Bruno

[silenthunter]

Please pardon my being a wiseass, but RPG's generally come from mosques or from behind groups of school children.
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R.E. Gleason, YN2
Navy '67-'71
Staff, Rear Admiral James D. Ramage,
COMCARDIV7, '70-'71
USS Oriskany, CVA34, '69-'71

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it won't be needed until someone tries to take it away." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Rich]

[GM Strong]

Ethanol is expensive to produce, far more expensive than gasoline. It is not a solution. We cannot at this time raise enough corn to convert to an ethanol based fuel either. A better idea is to drill some holes and pump our own oil. Multiple things would happen. Our own oil industry would be revived, producing thousands of jobs. (We have the best leading technology for pollution control for you that are so concerned.) Oil prices would stabilize and the foreign leash would be gone. Seems like the rest of the world is competing and the Enviro-whackos have only succeeded in taking us out of the market. The French get the bulk of their power from nukes and most of their oil came from Iraq. (And some wonder why they stuck with supporting Saddam. ) Nukes, that is another situation where we know how to do it right and screw ourselves by not doing it. We create our own problems in many ways.
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8th Army Korea 68-69

[300zxuser]

ah, freedon of speech, where would we be without it. I guess when one is fired at you, it probably does come from a window, behind a car or a mosque, but who gives a **** when it's coming your way?
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Bob Bruno

[thrawn21]

[GM1954]

Thrawn21:
Got to correct an error in your statement. While farmers love subsidies, I’m sure the average guy would prefer a higher market price. If you create market for corn, the subsidies will decrease.

Farm subsidies for corn growers come in two major forms. The first is CRP, a program that pays for panting trees and taking productive farmland and turning it into swamp and grassland. I believe CRP payments range from $70 to $185 per acre. This component in the farm bill should actually be called the Sierra Club bill. The second is LDP, a support price. If the price falls below a certain level, the taxpayer pays the difference. If this support price is $2.00 per bushel of corn and the market price of corn is $1.65, the taxpayer pays $0.35. Over the past forty years, the price of corn has consistently dropped. (Oversupply)

Subsidies work in reverse. The higher the market price, the less money going out the door to farmers. Look if you have a product with no market for it, the price is going to drop to the floor and it becomes unprofitable to produce, hence, subsidies to protect the farmer. If you produce ethanol, the demand rises and the need for subsidies vanishes.

Today these subsidies are extensive. To illustrate my point, the next time you drive through a state like Iowa in October or November, take a look at the fields. If you see beautiful 6 to 10 foot tall white grass waving in the breeze, enjoy the view. You paid for it. That’s CRP land, leased or funded by your tax dollars. Again, if market demand increases, price increases, and crop gets planted on what would have been CRP ground and you don’t have to pay for it.

And yes the dealer gets something like a 5 cent break on gas tax and something like a $10,000 tax credit for installing a $30,000 to $50,000 tank in the ground. Quite frankly, I would rather have a guy receive a check for $30,000 for installing a gas tank than give $10,000 to the government.

We have something in this country that most developed countries don’t have; hundreds of millions of acres of farmland and fertile grass and timberland. Around 4 million new cars and trucks sold in the past two years will burn 85% ethanol. It just seems a serious mistake to trust the supply of fuel that we use to run and defend this country to countries hostile to the United States.

[JCJR]

The biggest reason ethanol isn't in heavier production, is because oil is cheaper than ethanol, and most folks won't spend extra money out of their own pockets, on some exalted principle.

Unless we do something 'sensible' like start building more nuclear plants (nuclear, overall, is the most environmentally safe industrial-scale power source)--

The many alternate "low density" power sources, wind, solar, ethanol, coal-gas, will remain relatively undeveloped until the price of oil rises enough to make the alternates look economically attractive. After gasoline passes maybe $5 a gallon, $4 a gallon for ethanol will be a bargain. Customers will go looking for ethanol, and manufacturers will be only too happy to supply it.

In WWII, Germany made much of its vehicle fuel from coal. Heat coal for the coal-gas, and pass it over iron grid catalysts to make a gasoline lookalike. The coal residue is coke (more purified carbon) which burns quite nicely for steel production, and probably would burn quite nicely in a coal-fired electric generator.

USA has thousands of years coal reserves.

If and when oil gets expensive enough, perhaps the thousands of coal-fired electric plants could be economically retrofitted to manufacture coal-gasoline as a byproduct of electric generation.

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One interesting application of corn fuel, which is cheaper and more direct than turning it into ethanol--

Corn-burning home furnaces are commercially available. Cool gadgets, automatic heating about like oil or gas fired heaters. Load bushels of dry corn into the hopper. Automatically feeds corn to the heater. Corn burns clean, little ash. Supposedly it is much cheaper to heat yer house on Corn, compared to coal or natural gas.

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Ideally, one would allow the "invisible hand of economics" to control the phasing-in of more expensive power sources as oil gradually becomes more expensive.

However, the oil-rich nations are so politically instable, oil could suddenly become in short supply, potentially causing massive unemployment and even mass urban starvation.

Since it takes years to bring alternate fuel sources on-line, one MIGHT make a national-security case that it would be wise for the government to intervene and massively subsidize new energy sources.

Since many alternate energy sources have environmental consequences, it would be an uphill battle against environmental lobbies.

[buffman]

More like nearly 9,000 ammo and weapon dumps in the country. They bring it all to huge sites where they destry it or give the best stuff to the ING. Also have found over 30 MIGs buried, makes you think that the jackpot of WMD shells are out there somewhere.
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Never Ever Give Up
America First

[Paul R.]

[GM1954]

For the past two years E85 (85% ethanol) has tracked $0.05 to $0.15 below the market price of gasoline, at the pump. The dealers, however, do drag their feet at installing a new tank to sell the stuff.

Tomorrow, I will fill my tank with ethanol in Mt. Prospect, Illinois, drive through Iowa, and fill up with ethanol again in Macon, Missouri. I’ll top of the tank with ethanol in Jefferson City, Missouri and return home the same route. In every one of these locations, the pump price for E85 will be less than regular gasoline. This is a one thousand mile trip requiring almost no gasoline, driving a car that comes with a Flex Fuel engine that is now a standard option on many US cars.

This stuff is here today in some areas of the country. All I’m saying is if you have a choice, and many of you do, fill the tank with ethanol. That way less money goes to the Middle East for use in developing nuclear reactors and weapons systems that can be used against this country.

By the way, Sadam did purchase those RPGs now stockpiled. If I had to guess, he didn’t pay for those weapons with the sale of intellectual property, dates, and camel meat.

[buffman]

Sorry-can't remember the site. I read the article last night, not sure if it was a link on here or another site I peruse, it did show pics of the excavation from start to finish. Help anyone?

Oops found one, I went to google and put in buried Iraqi fighter jets, many articles:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/6/105528.shtml
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Never Ever Give Up
America First

[JCJR]