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noc
PO1
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 492
Location: Dublin, CA
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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noc
PO1
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 492
Location: Dublin, CA
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 Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting...
"However, in recent days the critics have fallen silent as word quietly leaked from Iraq that major discoveries have already been made and are now being documented completely. Bush administration officials are keeping any such discoveries secret for the moment."
I wonder what else they found. |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Makes you pretty angry that the Russians were selling them (anything) to Iraq. |
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swing votr
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thats pretty funny... but is that a big deal? Terror training camps a big, but planes buried in the sand? How could those possible still work? I imagine getting sand in my car engine, and then multiplying it by a couple thousand horse power... still equals one messed up mode of transportation.
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"I already don't miss it," he said of Washington. Asked to elaborate, he replied: "You know that great feeling you get when you stop banging your head against a wall?" |
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Billman
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Finally, I see people posting that it is a FACT that there were training camps in Iraq. Where are sources for this, because I haven't heard of it. |
This assertion isn't even controversial. Refer to the 9-11 Commission Report or the New York Times archives. Search on "Ansar-Al-Islam" for the terrorist training camps in northern Iraq, and "Salman Pak" for the camp south of Baghdad. Articles are also easily found documenting Saddam's financial support of Palestinian suicide bombers - he openly bragged about his generous payments to the families of successful bombers, some of those families thanked him publicly, and at least one of the bombers cited it as a motivation, since her death would provide financial independence to her surviving family.
I'm not surprised you haven't heard of this, however. The media has preferred to focus on the lack of credible evidence tying Iraq to 9-11 itself. That's always struck me as odd - I care far less about extracting revenge for 9-11 than preventing *another* 9-11 - which could just as easily have come from Saddam, Ghadafi, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran or North Korea as from Al-Qaeda. Two down, several to go.
Best analogy I've seen came from Rudy Giuliani in New York. He observes that when he fought to dismantle the Mafia there, he couldn't just destroy one or two families, because the survivors would simply take over the business and become even stronger. He had to take them ALL out including anyone who financed them. And he did. And it was hard and took time and many many people doubted him. Sound familiar?
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-- Bill in Seattle |
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swing votr
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Rdtf wrote: | | Makes you pretty angry that the Russians were selling them (anything) to Iraq. |
Back in the 80's... I don't want to know what WE were giving to Iraq!!!
_________________
"I already don't miss it," he said of Washington. Asked to elaborate, he replied: "You know that great feeling you get when you stop banging your head against a wall?" |
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Rdtf
CNO
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2209
Location: BUSHville
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| swing votr wrote: |
Thats pretty funny... but is that a big deal? Terror training camps a big, but planes buried in the sand? How could those possible still work? I imagine getting sand in my car engine, and then multiplying it by a couple thousand horse power... still equals one messed up mode of transportation. |
Actually it wasn't meant to be funny. You are not getting the point - if they can hide fighter planes (not very old, mind you, those models are fairly recent ) then what the he** else could they possibly hide!! |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| swing votr wrote: |
Thats pretty funny... but is that a big deal? Terror training camps a big, but planes buried in the sand? How could those possible still work? I imagine getting sand in my car engine, and then multiplying it by a couple thousand horse power... still equals one messed up mode of transportation. |
The planes were well-protected via covers. They came out pretty clean.
Also, Mr. Swing Votr, regarding the jets "not being a big deal", how about INTENT?
Do you believe Saddam planted these jets hoping that Foxbat trees would sprout, from which he could harvest a new crop of Mach 3 aircraft? Or was the intent to unbury and wash them?
The covers can be seen at
http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/mig25a.jpg
http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/mig25b.jpg
http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/mig25c.jpg
http://www.newsmax.com/images/headlines/mig25d.jpg
Also see the collage of photos at http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk155/buriedJets.htm
They came out pretty clean indeed:
To those who believe that Saddam would bury jet fighters, but not Scuds, containers of anthrax, and chemical weapons, I say:
Would you like to buy a bridge in Brooklyn? I can give you a VERY good price.
-- FDL
Last edited by fortdixlover on Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:11 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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buffman
LCDR
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I have read somewhere that Mohammed Atta trained at Salam Pak in the mock airliner. Also, nobody speaks of the 3 or 4 sarin shells found, and about the 17 cyclosarin shells the Polish retrieved. If there is smoke, there is fire. One shell had about one gallon of the chemicals, each enough to wipe out an entire city if mixed right and with favorable weather conditions.
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Never Ever Give Up
America First |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Almost nothing drives me more crazy than this... |
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| swing votr wrote: | | I am simply opposed to the timing of going into Iraq, and I think rather than storming into Bagdad, I think we should have secured the borders as best we could first. I have no doubt that how ever many years from now that I raq will be a better place to live, just in my gut I think the war could have waited a year or two until Afghanistan was completely done. |
And as it turned out, if we had not gone in when we did, Ghadafi (a friend of Saddam) would likely have had nukes.
What do you think the risk of that event would have been?
Bush went in when the intelligence information compelled him to, as the person with ultimate responsibility for the security of the United States. To anyone who would not have acted similarly, I say, go move to France - or Sudan. You are endangering me and my family.
-- FDL |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Swing votr: did you ever see those buried-jets pictures before?
If not, why not?
There are two possibilities:
1. You're not very well-read.
2. The MSM suppressed the pictures and story.
Which is it?
If #2, why would the MSM suppress such a story?
-- FDL |
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swing votr
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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I had not seen the photos before. Apperantly only BBC covered it. Honestly, I had known French and Russians sold them equipment (illegally), and that they had planes, I just thought we bombed them all.
And while I find it scary to think what could be buried in Iraq, I find it funny (yes funny) that Saddam, or whoever, would think " I am about to be invaded, I better bury my planes?" I would have thought that there could possibly be a better use for them, though when the rest of your airforce has been wiped out, the ground starts looking like a pretty good option.
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"I already don't miss it," he said of Washington. Asked to elaborate, he replied: "You know that great feeling you get when you stop banging your head against a wall?" |
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noc
PO1
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 492
Location: Dublin, CA
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| swing votr wrote: |
I had not seen the photos before. Apperantly only BBC covered it. Honestly, I had known French and Russians sold them equipment (illegally), and that they had planes, I just thought we bombed them all.
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You thought wrong. What you now need to think is: why did 99% of the MSM suppress this story?
| swing votr wrote: |
And while I find it scary to think what could be buried in Iraq, I find it funny (yes funny) that Saddam, or whoever, would think " I am about to be invaded, I better bury my planes?" I would have thought that there could possibly be a better use for them, though when the rest of your airforce has been wiped out, the ground starts looking like a pretty good option. |
Saddam has a history of going to the brink, then folding and making it easy for the amoral weaklings of the west to let him regroup. He buried his weapons as yet another example of that strategy (You wouldn't think it was funny if you, as a Saddam opponent, were being fired upon by one of those jets.)
This is why Saddam was so dangerous. As a megalomaniacal edge-player, allowing him to gain nukes or chemical/biological weapons delivery capability was not an option.
Period.
If you care to debate the merits of that argument, go to kos.com.
I think like a doctor because I am a doctor. Next time you get abdominal pain, will you ask your doctor to play on the edge and send you home with tylenol? After all, it's likely indigestion...not a heart attack or fatal abdominal crisis like appendicitis.
Or will you likely want aggressive action taken to ensure you don't end up buying the farm?
-- FDL |
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