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Bruno1
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: Texas
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GT
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
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 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Here are excerpts from film critic Joanna Conner's review entitled "A moving, although partisan, account of Kerry's war". Her review is of "Going Upriver", which is playing at several movie theaters in my area:
"One side will inevitably consider it unadulterated campaign propaganda...The other side will consider it a necessary counterattack against the distortions and lies put out by the now-discredited Swift Boat Veterans for Truth."
"At the same time, it provides an unequivocal answer to the scurrilous attacks that have been made on him, using archival footage and interviews with soldiers who really were there, with him, to tell the truth of Kerry's service in Vietnam."
Joanna Conners included a blurb that U.S. Navy swift boat veteran Richard J. McCann and his wife would in person be distributing 350 free tickets to the screening. She said he was an officer with Kerry in Vietnam and would introduce the film. Joanna Conners email is jconnors@plaind.com |
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rbshirley
Founder
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Going Up River: The Long War of John Kerry |
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| Bruno1 wrote: | | Roger Ebert the movie critic, slams the SBVT in his review ... |
It continues to amaze me how this election year has turned into the time
when journalists and entertainers have prostituted their professions so
blazenly by using their mediums to shamelessly pretend they are either
reporting the news without bias (CBS), producing documentaries rather
than hate filled propaganda (Michael Moore), or critically reviewing a new
motion picture release for its entertainment content instead of spewing
out their own brand of political gobble-de-gook.
Roger Ebert, another fat white man, has joined Michael Moore in attempting
to shove his own hatred down the American Public's throats in the belief
that he somehow holds a monopoly on political thought resulting from his
success in the entertainment world. Listen to his "praise" of George Butler's
latest cinematic effort.
Is there a motion picture somewhere in this supposed film reviewer's life?
From the review of George Butler's "Going Upriver" by Roger Ebert
| Roger Ebert wrote: |
Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry
BY ROGER EBERT / October 1, 2004
Of all the dirty tricks in this unhappy presidential campaign, the most
outrageous has been the ad campaign by the "Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth," attempting to discredit John Kerry's service in Vietnam.
Supporters of the malingering Bush have shamelessly challenged the
war record of a wounded and decorated veteran. This campaign llustrates
the tactic of the Big Lie, as defined by Hitler and perfected by Goebbels:
Although a little lie is laughed at, a Big Lie somehow takes on a reality of
its own, through its sheer effrontery.
{snip}
It is Kerry's great misfortune that Dan Rather and CBS News have deflected
attention from Bush's inexplicable (or at least unexplained) absence from
National Guard duty. If the polls can be believed, many American voters are
inattentive, credulous and unable to think critically about political claims.
The Swift Boat ads have reportedly lost votes for Kerry, but the Rather debacle
has gained votes for Bush; some voters apparently believe that if Rather was
wrong, then somehow Bush's military irregularities have been vindicated.
Will this film change any votes? Doubtful, since most members of the audience
will be Kerry supporters. It is sad but true that a 30-second commercial, which
any literate person should instinctively question, can shift votes but the truth
cannot. Not that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth know much about truth.
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GT
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Here are excerpts from film critic Joanna Conner's review entitled "A moving, although partisan, account of Kerry's war". Her review is of "Going Upriver", which is playing at several movie theaters in my area:
"One side will inevitably consider it unadulterated campaign propaganda...The other side will consider it a necessary counterattack against the distortions and lies put out by the now-discredited Swift Boat Veterans for Truth."
"At the same time, it provides an unequivocal answer to the scurrilous attacks that have been made on him, using archival footage and interviews with soldiers who really were there, with him, to tell the truth of Kerry's service in Vietnam."
Joanna Conners included a blurb that U.S. Navy swift boat veteran Richard J. McCann and his wife would in person be distributing 350 free tickets to the screening. She said he was an officer with Kerry in Vietnam and would introduce the film. Joanna Conners email is jconnors@plaind.com |
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Me#1You#10
Site Admin
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 6503
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| GT wrote: | ...the now-discredited Swift Boat Veterans for Truth."
"At the same time, it provides an unequivocal answer to the scurrilous attacks that have been made on him, using archival footage and interviews with soldiers who really were there, with him, to tell the truth of Kerry's service in Vietnam."
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This woman and her ilk put Goebbels to shame.
Last nite I watched a monumental fraud posture as a viable candidate for the Presidency of the United States...and it sickens me. |
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shadowy
Commander
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 301
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:01 am Post subject: |
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It never ceases to amaze me that these Kool-Aid drinkers can glibly wave off the eye-witness testimony and reputations and honorable service of literally hundreds of veterans of every rank, political persuation and occupation, and still consider themselves honest investigators.
Ignoring (and suppressing) the outrage of vast numbers of military veterans, they side with a man who has admitted making up a story about his war experience, who has three purple hearts for wounds that required no hospitialization, who dishonored his comrades in arms with hideous false accusations for political gain, who negotiated with the enemy and pushed their agenda to the Congress. These are merely the most blatantly true of the many charges against him. These are the bare minimum these hacks have to know when they sit down to write their contemptuous screeds.
They call themselves unbiased. They call themselves journalists. They call themselves professionals. Yet they call men who laid their lives on the line to provide them the luxury of being both idiots and alive every filthy, denigrating name they can pull out of their perverse, corrupted minds and spew into public view.
Call yourselves what you will. It can't hide what you are. |
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dmackto
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Going Up River: The Long War of John Kerry |
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Ok that one really ticked me off.
| Quote: |
Mr. Ebert,
I've watched your reviews on television since I was a kid and I usually agreed with you but this review is so full of fabrications I could not let it pass without comment.
I suspect you know what you wrote is not true but on the off chance your ignorance is only that I will tell you where you have errored.
You refer to the SBVT as Bush supporters. While it is true that some are others are democrats who don't even care for Bush and others are independants. John O'Neill, co-author of "Unfit For Command" voted for Al Gore in 2000 and for Ross Perot before that. He has called Bush "an empty suit".
You say they have shamelessly challanged the war record of a wounded and decorated veteran. Yes they care challanging his record because they were there, they are wounded and decorated veterans too. If anyone ever had a right it is them. How is it that you have a right to publically accuse 260 decorated combat veterans of being liars? Do you have any evidence of this? You have made the shameless and outrageous assault.
The Big Lie that has taken on a life of its own is that the swift boat vets claims have been proven false. You are one of many perpetrators. Oh Irony. The fact is that Not One Claim in the book Unfit For Command has been proven to be false. Not One. Can you claim otherwise? You would be the first to do be able to. If the claims are false why won't Kerry sign the form 180 and release ALL his records instead of a few hand picked pages? Were you aware that there is evidence, coming to light just today, that Kerry indeed wrote the after action report that supports his version of events the night Rassmann fell off Kerry's fleeing boat? To use your own words, those on the same river at the time are the men you are calling liars. And by the way, Did you know that Kerry's people have admitted that the first purple heart Kerry recieved was in fact the result of a self- inflicted wound and that there was No Enemy Fire? Did you know that after Kerry gave a dramtic speech at the convention about how his boat stayed as all the boats fled and heroically saved Rassmann that his people have since admitted that in fact his boat is the one that fled. The Only One. Rassmann in fact fell off the back because Kerry's boat was so out of there.
Where were we? Counting lies, yes?
John O'Neill is working for Nixon? Too laughable, we won't even go there. I mean, not only was Nixon not president yet when Kerry didn't have his secret mission not wearing his magic hat into Cambodia which was seared, SEARED into his memory only not really seared maybe just par-boilded.. Nixon also isn't alive to be working for today. So, we Won't. Go. There. Ok... Maybe we will because I suspect thats what this film's purpose is. To throw a red herring out for the unbiased press like Dan Rather and You apparently, to chase around and distract from the real message the Swift Boat Vets are sending. That Kerry is Unfit For Command. It won't work. The message is too powerful and its too powerful because it's true and the men sending it are truthful, couragous and honorable and this comes accross every single time they are interviewed. Unlike Kerrys half-dozen "brothers" who he keeps locked up in a string of 5 star hotels and only lets them speak to the press under favorable circumstances the handlers can control. And by the way, did you know Kerry's people have admitted the Cambodia story that he told numerous times Was Not True?
George Butler was also an editor of Kerry's first book, "The New Soldier"by the way. You know, the one he doesn't want America to read. The one with the American flag flying upside down on its cover.
I realize I seem to be jumping around but all I'm doing is reading your article and pointing out your errors and/or hypocracy as I go.
Lets, see where was I.. ah yes..
Bush's guard service has been explained and documented (with real records none of that times new roman proportional font faxed from Texas stuff here) and real testimony from real people who are actually alive.. If you can't acknowledge that he fullfilled his duty in the guard after serving over 6 years, then you are not interested in knowing the truth. He was required to earn 50 points per year. He did so, in some years earning more than six times what he needed. People familar with how the guard works have testified that what he did was more than satisfactory. You have joined rank with those who ignore any evidence that doesn't support your BUSH IS THE DEVIL theories. Michael Moore is your hero isn't he? Admit it. It's written all over your article, between every line.
Ok moving on.. Only one of the swift boat ads was based on Kerry's actions during is four months in Vietnam. Every ad since the first one has been based on what he did when he got home and the facts of every single ad beyond the first are based on public record. That is why any literate viewer is effected. They hear Kerry betraying his country with thier own ears and see him disrespect the symbols of our veterans and our country with thier own eyes.
But I suspect you already knew all that and for whatever reasons you didn't care.
Regards,
Deborah Mack
www.pajamajournal.com |
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill |
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dmackto
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:09 am Post subject: |
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And a letter off the the editor of the Chicago Sun Times as well..  
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill |
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Bruno1
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 4
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Going Up River: The Long War of John Kerry |
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| dmackto wrote: |
Ok that one really ticked me off.
| Quote: |
Mr. Ebert,
I've watched your reviews on television since I was a kid and I usually agreed with you but this review is so full of fabrications I could not let it pass without comment.
I suspect you know what you wrote is not true but on the off chance your ignorance is only that I will tell you where you have errored.
You refer to the SBVT as Bush supporters. While it is true that some are others are democrats who don't even care for Bush and others are independants. John O'Neill, co-author of "Unfit For Command" voted for Al Gore in 2000 and for Ross Perot before that. He has called Bush "an empty suit".
You say they have shamelessly challanged the war record of a wounded and decorated veteran. Yes they care challanging his record because they were there, they are wounded and decorated veterans too. If anyone ever had a right it is them. How is it that you have a right to publically accuse 260 decorated combat veterans of being liars? Do you have any evidence of this? You have made the shameless and outrageous assault.
The Big Lie that has taken on a life of its own is that the swift boat vets claims have been proven false. You are one of many perpetrators. Oh Irony. The fact is that Not One Claim in the book Unfit For Command has been proven to be false. Not One. Can you claim otherwise? You would be the first to do be able to. If the claims are false why won't Kerry sign the form 180 and release ALL his records instead of a few hand picked pages? Were you aware that there is evidence, coming to light just today, that Kerry indeed wrote the after action report that supports his version of events the night Rassmann fell off Kerry's fleeing boat? To use your own words, those on the same river at the time are the men you are calling liars. And by the way, Did you know that Kerry's people have admitted that the first purple heart Kerry recieved was in fact the result of a self- inflicted wound and that there was No Enemy Fire? Did you know that after Kerry gave a dramtic speech at the convention about how his boat stayed as all the boats fled and heroically saved Rassmann that his people have since admitted that in fact his boat is the one that fled. The Only One. Rassmann in fact fell off the back because Kerry's boat was so out of there.
Where were we? Counting lies, yes?
John O'Neill is working for Nixon? Too laughable, we won't even go there. I mean, not only was Nixon not president yet when Kerry didn't have his secret mission not wearing his magic hat into Cambodia which was seared, SEARED into his memory only not really seared maybe just par-boilded.. Nixon also isn't alive to be working for today. So, we Won't. Go. There. Ok... Maybe we will because I suspect thats what this film's purpose is. To throw a red herring out for the unbiased press like Dan Rather and You apparently, to chase around and distract from the real message the Swift Boat Vets are sending. That Kerry is Unfit For Command. It won't work. The message is too powerful and its too powerful because it's true and the men sending it are truthful, couragous and honorable and this comes accross every single time they are interviewed. Unlike Kerrys half-dozen "brothers" who he keeps locked up in a string of 5 star hotels and only lets them speak to the press under favorable circumstances the handlers can control. And by the way, did you know Kerry's people have admitted the Cambodia story that he told numerous times Was Not True?
George Butler was also an editor of Kerry's first book, "The New Soldier"by the way. You know, the one he doesn't want America to read. The one with the American flag flying upside down on its cover.
I realize I seem to be jumping around but all I'm doing is reading your article and pointing out your errors and/or hypocracy as I go.
Lets, see where was I.. ah yes..
Bush's guard service has been explained and documented (with real records none of that times new roman proportional font faxed from Texas stuff here) and real testimony from real people who are actually alive.. If you can't acknowledge that he fullfilled his duty in the guard after serving over 6 years, then you are not interested in knowing the truth. He was required to earn 50 points per year. He did so, in some years earning more than six times what he needed. People familar with how the guard works have testified that what he did was more than satisfactory. You have joined rank with those who ignore any evidence that doesn't support your BUSH IS THE DEVIL theories. Michael Moore is your hero isn't he? Admit it. It's written all over your article, between every line.
Ok moving on.. Only one of the swift boat ads was based on Kerry's actions during is four months in Vietnam. Every ad since the first one has been based on what he did when he got home and the facts of every single ad beyond the first are based on public record. That is why any literate viewer is effected. They hear Kerry betraying his country with thier own ears and see him disrespect the symbols of our veterans and our country with thier own eyes.
But I suspect you already knew all that and for whatever reasons you didn't care.
Regards,
Deborah Mack
www.pajamajournal.com |
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Dmackto,
This is a great response to one of the Kerry "hacks" inside the MSM. It's amazing to watch them all come out of the woodwork to support the left. I guess Mr. Ebert has rubbed elbows with the elite hollywood crowd for too many years. We are slowly getting across to the American people just how biased the media is today.
Okay, back to Mr. Ebert, since when is it right to spew your opinion about politics while writing a review on a movie? He also attacks SBVT without any knowledge for what they stand for and probably doesn't care, it shows in his last sentence of the review. The editor at the Sun-Times should be outraged at Mr. Ebert from straying away from his real job, not jumping into a fire(SBVT). He just called over 260 veterans a bunch of "liars", that has really got my blood boiling. The editor and so-called movie critic will hear from me and all my friends. I think we should bombard their email with responses. |
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USAF66-70
Lt.Jg.
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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email to Roger Ebert:
I’ve always enjoyed and usually agree with your movie reviews. However, you’re wrong about the Swift Boat vets.
As Don Hewitt of 60 Minutes said, it was "stupid" for Kerry to have injected his Vietnam service into the presidential race, and that, "You can't play war hero if it's about a war where you threw your medals away."
We know, among other things, that Kerry’s “seared” Cambodia memory is fantasy, and that he falsely accused his fellow vets of “all kinds of atrocities,” claiming that he himself committed the “same kind of atrocities,” and then threw his medals/ribbons away. But now, in 2004, he tells us that those four months in Vietnam (during which he committed all kinds of atrocities), along with his reclaimed medals, now qualify him to be CIC.
We also know that Kerry refuses to sign Form 180 to release all his records (as Bush effectually has by signing an executive order). From all I’ve seen and read, the SBVT are many honorable veterans who certainly have earned the right to exercise their free speech—and the documented evidence they provide clearly shows that Kerry gamed the system to get five medals in four months before coming back to falsely accuse his fellow veterans of “all kinds of atrocities.” |
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dmackto
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I agree but keep in mind while writing to the paper that they are one of 2 that did print an article about Kerry writing his own after action reports. Let them know how you feel about Ebert in no uncertain terms though.
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill |
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The Balloon Artist
PO3
Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 262
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Canned speeches, canned crowds, canned hair, canned tans, and Canned Heat.
intro
Gotta get goin', cause I got film as a hero.
Got to get on my way, I've been waitin’ long.
Well I've got to run and find me a presidential home.
I'm goin' up the river, baby don't you wanna go?
I'm goin' up the river, baby don't you wanna go?
I'm goin' to some place where I've never was before.
I’m goin', I'm goin' to the secret places in my mind
I’m goin’ sailin’ past the Cambodia line
Well, I'm tellin’ stories that make me look just fine.
You can jump onboard hear me say what’s in my mind.
I'm gonna leave this river, got to get away.
I'm gonna leave this river, got to get away.
All this fussin' and fightin' man you know I sure can't stay.
Now Baby, I got three purple hearts and I get to leave today,
just exacly where I'm goin' I can not say but,
I might even dis’ the USA
It a brand-new game now I that I’m goin’ to play.
You can watch me runnin’ or screamin’ and cryin’
But watch closely, see if I’m in my right mind
_________________
What about John Kerry's four months in Vietnam qualify him to be president?
Al Gore was there for five. |
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Dimsdale
Captain
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Massachusetts: the belly of the beast
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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My letter to Ms. Connors:
| Quote: | Dear Ms. Connors,
I read your review of "Going Up River" with some interest.
I was particularly interested in your statements "One side will inevitably consider it unadulterated campaign propaganda...The other side will consider it a necessary counterattack against the distortions and lies put out by the now-discredited Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. At the same time, it provides an unequivocal answer to the scurrilous attacks that have been made on him, using archival footage and interviews with soldiers who really were there, with him, to tell the truth of Kerry's service in Vietnam."
I have been following this issue ever since the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (now Swiftvets and POWs for Truth by the way), and I am unaware of the "distortions and lies" put out by the "now-discredited" Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Who discredited them? What is their proof? Certainly, Mr. Kerry has not released his FULL military record that would address most of these issues one way or another, and once and for all. The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have sworn affidavits and factual proof to back their claims, while Kerry has neither, and more and more of his stories are being shown to be made of whole cloth.
As for "distortions and lies," to date, notwithstanding the CBS forgeries, only Mr. Kerry has been forced to recant several of his stories (see "Christmas in Cambodia" and his first Purple Heart. The former never happened, as testified by his own crew, and the latter has been admittedly "self inflicted"). The Swift Boat veterans have neither been discredited or disproved in ANY of their allegations, with any facts. They have simply been publicly smeared, called "liars" and their reputations smeared by the so called mainstream media, which includes the likes of Dan Rather, and, it appears, you.
Assuming you are not simply parroting what you have read in so called mainstream publications or the Kerry website, please furnish any proof you have of your statements and I will be more than happy to review them. As a lifelong resident of Massachusetts, I will be surprised if you are privy to information that I am unaware of, but I will keep an open mind. If you are unable to back your claims, I would suggest that you send the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth a public apology in your next column.
Sincerely, |
As for Ebert, his is an unapologetic liberal weasel, who sincerely believes in his own infallibility. He is a legend in his own mind. Gene Siskel was the credible member of that pair. I think Ebert was there for comic relief, sort of like Juan Williams on FoxNews Sunday. He LOVED the factually challenged "Fahrenheit 911" if that is any indication. I stopped using him as a source of any credible information long before that.
_________________
Everytime he had a choice, Kerry chose to side with communists rather than the United States. |
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shadowy
Commander
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 301
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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DMackto, if we read any more of that kind of garbage from Ebert, we'll know that it's way more malignant than simple ignorance. You gave him a better education on one page than he's given us in a thousand reviews. And burned off the outer 2 layers of his hide while you were at it!
Good job. As Laura Ingraham would say to Ebert, Shut Up and Review!
But what I have to say, I'll say to his bosses. |
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dmackto
Rear Admiral
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Dear Ms. Connors,
Your review of "Up The River - The Long War of John Kerry" assumes some often repeated falsehoods to be fact. Specifically, you refer to the Swift Boat Vets group as discredited and their claims to be distortions and lies.
Nothing could be further from the truth. There has not been a single fact in the book "Unfit For Command" that has been discredited or proven false. Conversly, John Kerry's people have admitted that the Cambodia story he told so many times over the years never happened. Under pressure they also admitted his first purple heart was the result of self-inflicted wounds. When John Kerry gave his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention he told a story he called "No Man Left Behind" in which he acted heroically when Rassmann fell overboard after a mine exploded and all swift boats fled the area while he alone stayed and pulled Rassmann out of the river. His campaign now admits that in fact the only boat that left that day was Kerry's boat and All the other boats stayed and assisted the disabled PCF 3 and her injuried sailors. Kerry came back after it was clear there wasn't an ambush (ie: no enemy fire) and pulled Rassmann back into his boat.
So who has been discredited? The men that were there with Kerry on the same river at the same time have signed afadavits yet you call them liars so easily. Why?
I have no idea what your political affiliation is so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't know the truth and instead believed what the Kerry campaign has often repeated that the swift boat claims are lies.
Put aside for a moment the medals and conflicting stories of the actions that earned (or didn't earn) them. Only one SBVT ad focused on that time. Every ad since has focused instead on his actions when he returned from Vietnam and none of those ads are disputable because they are based on public record. Often using clips of Kerry's own words.
I think you owe the SBVT and the POW/MIA familes (joined now with SBVT) an apology and a retraction.
The lesson of Dan Rather is that we can not allow lies to go unchallanged in the media. I challange you to correct the record.
Regards,
Deborah Mack
www.pajamajournal.com
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Who are her bosses?
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill |
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