SwiftVets.com

[hanna]

When my husband turned 18, we were married and had a child and whatever classification that made him was printed right on his draft card. Everyone knew what their classification was. It was like, Hi, how are you? My name is John and I am classified A-1. What are you??

[Bob Chamberlain]

I have written a letter back to the Selective Service System to ask for clarification of the record they sent me. The specific questions I asked:

1 - John Kerry registered on December 11, 1961, yet he apparently was not "recognized" by the system and classified for nearly two and a half years. What was his status for this period of time and why did it take so long for him to be classified? As I recall, I was classified 2-S as soon as I registered.

2 - You stated in your cover letter that John Kerry was classified as 2-S on May 26, 1964 and was subsequently awarded this deferment four more times. The classification record has three entries for his 2-S classifications, each with two dates:

#1 5/20/64 or 5/26/64 and 6/30/64
#2 10/27/64 and 6/30/65
#3 6/02/?? and 12/8/65

His next classification is 1-D on April 6, 1966. As I recall, a 2-S deferment was valid for one year. Your statements indicate that John Kerry actually was classified as 2-S five times, the original classification and four extensions, in a period of less than two years. Is this accurate? Obviously, his original 2-S classification was made on April 20 or 26, 1964. Can you tell me which of the remaining five dates shown on his classification record correspond with the dates of his four deferment extensions?

Also, there is an even better quote from John Kerry concerning his "5th" student deferment:

Quote from John F. Kerry The Complete Biography, page 50
“As graduation approached, Kerry believed he had three choices: be drafted, seek a deferment for graduate school, or join up and position himself to become an officer. "‘I called [the draft board] because I was thinking one of the options was, maybe I’ll go study abroad, which was a euphemism for screwing around a bit, but it was clear to me that I was going to be at risk. My draft board ...said, ‘Look, the likelihood is you are probably going to be drafted.’" I said, "If I’m going to be drafted, I’d like to have responsibility and be an officer."

I love his statement "I’ll go study abroad, which was a euphemism for screwing around a bit..." Yeah, he was really hot to get to Vietnam.
_________________
Bob

Useful anti-Kerry campaign material at:
http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info

[Navy wife]

This is a fascinating thread. How in the world can that man lie with such a straight face? It would be great to hear his explanation of how he didn't have any deferments at all!

[air_vet]

If I rememeber correctly, in mid-1963 Kennedy exempted ALL married men from the draft (things were starting to heat up in SEA). I was in college from fall '57 to spring '62. I don't remember doing anything special for a deferement - I seem to remember a form that I filled out at the start of each term that the school sent to my draft board.

Later (when I was already on active duty so I don't remember the date) the alll married men exemption was changed to married fathers.

[ashter]

has anyone sent this to the Drudge web site?

[Bob Chamberlain]

I haven't sent this information anywhere yet, except to this forum. The cover letter I got along with Kerry's classification record doesn't seem to be fully accurate. Specifically, I believe that the 2-S deferments were good for one year, meaning that Kery would only have needed 2 since he remained unclassified for so long, and I can't see from the dates shown on the classification record that Kerry was classified 5 times as 2-S, as the letter states. That is why I wrote back for further clarification. It is clear that Kerry made full use of the 2-S educational deferments. That is certain. The real problem is, was this 2, 4 or 5 deferments? I hate to go out too public until I am sure of what I am talking about.

But I have no objection to someone else forwarding this information to other people. I will scan in the letter and the classification record as PDF's if anyone thinks that is needed. I would recommend that you make it clear that the exact number of deferments Kerry got is uncertain. But you can state that his Selective Service Board classified him as 2-S right up until he enlisted in the Naval Reserve. And you can state that Kerry wanted a further educational deferment so he could go fool around in Paris for a year. All of that is accurate and fully documented.
_________________
Bob

Useful anti-Kerry campaign material at:
http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info

[ashter]

OK,

I can notify Drudge after you post the PDF file, and if you don't mind, I'll just copy your clarification, so its as accurate as possible. Perhaps bringing this to light will open a more formal investigation.

[Hondo]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for something out of Drudge. I'd suggest getting the story out to lgf, allahpundit, indc, instapundit, and other similar sites as well as Drudge.

I sent Drudge links re: PFC Barton being beaten and his attacker arrested several days ago. Nada. Don't ever recall seeing a damn thing about the incident on Drudge - ever - and I visit his site daily.

I sent Drudge the links about the stories that ran in the NY Post and Chicago Sun-Times showing that Kerry almost certainly wrote the "official" - and embelished to the point of falsehood - after action reports fo the incident that got Kerry his Bronze Star. (Kudos again to NavyChief for his work there!) Nada so far.

I am beginning to wonder if Drudge is more interested in truth or sensationalism. Hopefully he isn't being assimilated.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[FredRum]

Considering that the Kerry campaign and all of their surrogates have blasted people like Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz for taking just 1 student deferment each (BTW, Rumsfeld's deferment was from the Korean War), I don't think it really matters whether Kerry got 2, 3, 4 or 5 deferments. As long as he got at least 1, his campaign biography (in addition to his official biographies) clearly sins by omission if not downright lies.
_________________

[Bob Chamberlain]

After some effort (I had to install some new software), I have gotten the draft records I received from the Selective Service System converted into PDF's. I have the cover letter, Kerry's classification record (broken into two files - the page was too large) and an analysis/summary that I wrote. The files are available for download at:

http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info/files/class_record_cover.pdf
http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info/files/classification_record1.pdf
http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info/files/classification_record2.pdf
http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info/files/classification_record_analysis.pdf

I will update these records when (or if) I am able to get more information from the Selective Service System.
_________________
Bob

Useful anti-Kerry campaign material at:
http://www.betrayed-vietnam-vet.info

[TXBear]

EFFECTS OF MARRIAGE AND FATHERHOOD ON DRAFT ELIGIBILITY


AFTER WORLD WAR II TO TODAY

If Congress and the President were to reinstate a military draft, Selective Service procedures currently in place would not treat married registrants, or those with a dependent child, any differently from men who are single. Regardless of marital or parental status, a man who will turn 20 years old during a year when a draft is in operation, and whose birthday draws a low lottery number, will probably receive a draft notice. Being married or being a parent will not, by itself, be grounds for a III-A "hardship to dependents" deferment, nor will it place a man in a lower priority of call.

Consideration given to a man’s marital or parental status in a draft has varied since the Second World War:

Paternity Deferments—

Under the Selective Service Act of 1948, Executive Order 9988 (April 22, 1948) provided that husbands who maintained a bona fide family relationship with their wives or children were deferred in Class III-A. But on September 25, 1951, Executive Order 10292 changed the status of childless husbands. They were no longer deferrable in Class III-A, except in cases where they could prove that their induction would cause extreme hardship for their dependents. Fathers maintaining a bona fide family relationship with a child continued to be deferred in class III-A (paternity deferments).

Executive Order 10469, July 11, 1953, did away with paternity deferments, except for those men who filed evidence showing paternity before August 25, 1953. Men whose induction would cause extreme hardship to dependents could still qualify for a Class III-A deferment.

From March 14, 1963 to April 23, 1970, the III-A classification was broadened to include all men who were fathers. President Kennedy issued Executive Order 11098 on March 14, 1963, to expand entitlement to this paternity deferment. For a man to qualify for a III-A deferment as a "Kennedy father," there had to be a "bona fide family relationship in their home" between the father and child. The definition of a man's "child" in the regulations of the period included "a legitimate or illegitimate child from the date of its conception." Therefore, the III-A classification could be granted during his wife's (or significant other's) pregnancy. The III-A classification also remained available to men, married or single, whose induction would be a hardship to their dependents.

Eligibility for the III-A classification on the basis of paternity ended in 1970. President Nixon issued Executive Order 11527 on April 23, 1970, which terminated the availability of the Class III-A paternity deferment for new fathers if the child was conceived on or after that date. Class III-A remained available for fathers of children conceived prior to that date, and for men who could prove hardship to dependents.

Effects of Marital Status on Induction Priority—

Executive Order 10001 (September 17, 1948) provided that men in Class I-A or I-A-O would be selected for induction in the order of their dates of birth, with the oldest being selected first.

On February 15, 1956, Executive Order 10659 made changes in the order of induction within Class I-A or I-A-O. Men who were married but did not have children were selected for induction in the same order as single men. Men who became fathers after August 25, 1953, had a lower priority of call within Class I-A or I-A-O. They could only be called after men without children (single or married, 19-26, oldest first).

Executive Order 11119 (September 10, 1963) changed Selective Service System regulations. Married men without children were placed one step lower in the order of call than single men. The local boards were then required to select men for induction in the following order: delinquents, volunteers, and I-A single men (19-26, oldest first), before calling these "Kennedy husbands."

The effect of a man’s marital status on his draft priority was further modified by President Johnson’s Executive Order 11241 in 1965. It provided that men who married after August 26, 1965, and had no children, were again considered the same as single men in Class I-A with regard to the order of call. However, childless men married prior to that date remained in the fourth order of call in Class I-A in accordance with the "Kennedy husband" rule. They could be drafted only after all delinquents, volunteers, and single and newly married men (19-26, oldest first) in Class I-A were selected for induction. President Johnson did not change eligibility for the III-A classification, which still applied to fathers and to men who proved hardship to dependents.

Assigning different priorities of call for men within Class I-A on the basis of their being single or married ended with an amendment to Selective Service System regulations (38 Federal Register 13485) on May 23, 1973. Marital status alone no longer affected priority of draft call. Unless revised by Congress or a change in Selective Service System regulations, these rules would apply in a future draft.


http://www.sss.gov/FactSheets/FSeffects.pdf

[PigBoatAndy]

Up until 1967-1968 deferments were almost automatic if

1. You were a full time student (which to most local boards meant a 2/3 to 3/4 load).

2. In "good standing" (not on academic probation),

3. Making "satisfactory progress towards a degree" (again not on academic probation),

4. Towards an undergraduate degree (medical/dental degrees were covered under the "Berry Plan" and "Doctor Draft")

It varied from local board to local board -- in my board where "everybody went to college" and strung out graduate work forever - and we did NOT have too many volunteers - so they were pretty tough on post-bachelor's degree deferments.

Five blocks away - in the area that served my grand parents' neigborhood - good, bluce collar neighborhood - as long as you were enrolled for 9 credits a semester you could keep student deferments forever.

I was an undergrad just before Viet Nam got hot - and in ROTC - which is not a "deferment" - that's a "Seaman Recruit E1 on a delay of active duty" - and after my Junior year cruise I was a "Seaman Apprentice E2 on a delay of active duty"

They let me go to grad school for 1 year (the nuke navy likes MS Engineers) as a member of the "IRR". in an "awaiting orders" status.

[frankzzz]

One reason the records might show Concord, New Hampshire as Kerry’s draft board is that Kerry attended Saint Paul’s prep school in New Hampshire before gong to Yale.

[SooZQ]

Here's a good commentary on this topic.

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=9598
_________________

Really support the troops, send them a letter and care package! Visit:http://www.anysoldier.com

[FredRum]

Bob, did anything ever come of your follow-ups with Selective Service?
_________________