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Nathanyl
PO3
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: Kerry, the Democrats, Humvee's and Body Armor |
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This is a long but hopefully decent read. If anyone thinks it's worth passing on feel free.
Senator Kerry made the following claim during the debate:
| Quote: | | I've met kids in Ohio, parents in Wisconsin places, Iowa, where they're going out on the Internet to get the state-of-the-art body gear to send to their kids. Some of them got them for a birthday present. |
Here are the facts:
Gen. Paul Kern, commander of the Army Material Command stated at a news conference on June 8th 2004 that "Everyone who is in theater today has been issued a protective vest," He then went on to say:
| Quote: | | There literally are dozens of soldiers alive today who were shot at close range by AK47s because of their body armor |
Mr. Kerry moved on to the lack of armored humvees presently in Iraq:
| Quote: | | I think that's wrong. Humvees -- 10,000 out of 12,000 Humvees that are over there aren't armored. And you go visit some of those kids in the hospitals today who were maimed because they don't have the armament. |
| Quote: | | This president just -- I don't know if he sees what's really happened on there. |
Facts:
He would be right about the armor if this was still March. Around the end of February there was a major uproar over the lack of armor on the humvees There were some injuries and deaths that wouldn't have happened if the humvees had all been armored.
The uproar over this issue became so loud that on March 18, 2004 House Congressional Resolution 391 was sent to the Committee on Armed Services by seven house representatives. The resolution stated that the:
| Quote: | Department of Defense and the military departments
Should, using all means at their disposal, increase the ability of currently unarmored vehicles that are deployed forward for operations in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom to resist improvised explosive devices, such means to include nontraditional production sources and technologies, field-installable kits, and reprogramming of funds; |
and also that
| Quote: | | the Department of Defense should immediately release to the military departments all funds that have been authorized and appropriated for the purposes of defeating improvised explosive devices and mitigating their effect on vehicles and that have not previously been released. |
Well it just so happened that the same article quoted above that dealt with the body armor also mentioned humvees. From that same Virginia-Pilot article I again quote Gen. Paul Kern:
| Quote: | | Kern also was asked about Humvees, the basic troop transport that have often been the targets of roadside bombs. He said 7,000 to 8,000 of the 12,000 Humvees in Iraq have been fitted with armor packages to give them greater protection. |
It's important to remember that the interview of General Kern took place in June and the debate took place at the end of September. I haven't been able to find any statistics stating how many humvees are still lacking armor but I would imagine that it can't be many.
I found it odd that Senator Kerry wouldn't know this so I decided to find out where he had gotten his statistics to see if I could make some sense on why he'd use numbers that are so far off. I'll now quote you from the John Kerry for President Rapid Response Center.
| Quote: | GEORGE BUSH’S RECORD OF FAILURE
Under Bush, Military Was Sent To War Without Proper Equipment And Resources
• Even in Mid-June, Soldiers Lacking Armored Vehicles. The problem with unarmored Humvees in combat situations continues to be an issue. In early March, Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, questioned Acting Secretary of the Army Les Brownlee about the shortage of body armor and fortified Humvees for troops serving in Iraq. Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D., said after a visit to Iraq in mid-June that U.S. forces still need better armored equipment. Of the 15,000 Humvees in Iraq, about 1,500 to 2,000 are armored, according to the Army. [Portland Press Herald, 7/2/04] |
This is fairly close to the numbers he used although I guess he couldn't remember the actual number of humvees in Iraq so he settled on 10,000.
After reading this I managed to obtain a copy of the Portland Press Herald article from July the second. The article was about a company called Bath Iron Works that was making armor for the humvees. Sure enough there was the quote. John Kerry was obviously basing his quote on this Portland Press article.
The problem is he was basing his statement on old information. According to General Kern by June 8th seven to eight thousand of the humvees were armored not 1500 to 2000 as stated in the article and during the debate. One more important point about the Portland Press Article. It is the news article with the latest date that I could find using the 1500 to 2000 armored humvee figures. The Kerry team is obviously trying to mislead the public by making it seem that nothing has been done about humvees when it's actually being rectified more quickly then demanded by congress.
There was one more issue about this statement that bothered me. Somewhere in the back of my mind I remembered that the lack of armor on the humvees had made the news but I couldn't remember when that was.
I did another search of the congressional records and here's what I found.
This problem was first brought before congress in 1996 during the Bosnia crisis. To quote Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison from the congressional record on September 18, 1996:
| Quote: | | We added $66 million above the President's request for additional up-armored Humvees. I am sure my colleagues will remember that it was up-armored Humvees that saved the life of one of our soldiers in the early days of the Bosnia conflict when his vehicle was destroyed--actually, it was struck by a landmine, but was not destroyed, because it was one of the up-armored Humvees. We want more of those to protect our troops if they are going to be in harm's way. But the President says ``no,'' he wants to cut those, even though they are proven to have saved at least one life in the Bosnia operation. |
and a little further down:
| Quote: | | Mr. President, where do you want to cut? Are you going to cut F-16's, as you send 23 more to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia? Or are you going to cut the cruise missiles that you did not put in the budget in the first place which have already been used in your operation over Iraq? Is that what you want to cut? Or do you want to cut the Humvees with the added armor that has already saved one life in Bosnia when a landmine was run over by a Humvee but the protection was there and an American life was saved? Is that what you want to cut? |
It seems that in 1996 President Clinton cut the funding for armor for humvees from the budget.
In 1999 I found another reference to humvees this time I'm quoting Senator Glenn D. Cunningham from remarks he made dealing with military readiness on March 10, 1998:
| Quote: | The extension changed from humanitarian. And Mr. Speaker, I think you will remember that the mission went after General Aideed. Well, during that time there was a humvee, which is a vehicle that our Rangers were driving, and they were trapped by the forces there. They were cut in four pieces with chainsaws and their remains were drug through the
streets of Somalia. Our military leaders asked for armor. |
Finally I found one more mention of humvees, this time made by Senator Russ Feingold dealing with the 1999 Defense Appropriations Bill:
| Quote: | | Finally, Mr. President, authors of the bill have again loaded it up with projects and hundreds of millions of dollars the Pentagon didn't even ask for. Just to give my colleagues a taste of these extravagant morsels, the bill adds: $78.5 million for 8 additional UH-60 helicopters; $30.0 million for JAVELIN anti-tank missiles; $208.3 million for Marine Corps procurement priorities; $50 million for advance procurement of the LHD-8 amphibious ship, which is a program DoD didn't even want to fund next year; $65.7 million for Humvee vehicles; $90 million for C-135 aircraft; and $40 million for F-15 Eagles. |
This time Mr. Feingold a Democrat considered the 67.5 million for humvees to be pork. Obviously the money never made it to the final version of the bill or was vetoed again by President Clinton otherwise our soldiers would have had the armored vehicles they needed in 2004.
Mr. Kerry after having given the wrong statistics on armored humvees proceeds to say:
| Quote: | | This president just -- I don't know if he sees what's really happened on there |
Well Mr. Kerry it seems that your the one that doesn't know what's really happened there. The soldiers all have government purchased body armor and the great majority of humvees that would have been armored if President Clinton hadn't vetoed the funds have now have the armor they need.
Sources:
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=71366&ran=129676
All Iraq troops equipped with protective vests, general says
http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/archives/002896.html
John Kerry for President Rapid Response Center
Congressional records were obtained from:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cri/
GPO Access
_________________
Bill Hershey
www.worldwar4.net |
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neverforget
Vice Admiral
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:46 am Post subject: |
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This should be sent to various news organizations and to President Bush.
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US Army Security Agency
1965-1971 |
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ocsparky101
PO1
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 479
Location: Allen Park. Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| The company that does the armoring on the Humvee is O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt. Their plant in Fairfield, Ohio does the armoring of these vehicles. On their web site they give a very good explaination about the history of armoring. It seems that in 1992 inn Somolia with Black Halk Down they descovered the need to armor vehicles. O'Gara-Hess immediately quoted this work for the Military. Well it seems that with the assistance on the Liberal Democrats and especially through Sen. Carl Levin D. Michigan this armoring of vehicles was blocked. It was not until 1998 when President Clintonwas about to order troops to go into Kosovo that an order was given by the Clinton Administration to armor vehicles. The problem though was that he ordered only those vehicles destined to go to Kosovo to be armored. You see President Clinton did not like to fight wars when there would be body counts he felt it was politically incorrect. So the ground troops in Kosovo have been well armored but the rest of the military has always been lacking. When President Bush took office and the Dashel liberials stold the majority in the Senate the liberals were still able to block armoring of vehicles. Bush was able though to get a token amount of armoring started though. When things started in Afganistan and the 2002 election gave the majority back to the Republicans O'Gara-Hess was immediatley put on priorty notice to begin armoring vehicles. If you will remember it was soon after the ground war in Iraq that the news reported that the armored vehicles were on the way to Iraq. There is one plant that does this armoring. They have been working 7 days a week 24 hours a day and have increased employment to the max to do this job. The shame is that had it not been for the liberals of the 90s these troops would have had the equipment necessary for their protection. Yes Kerry loves to blame Bush for the lack of armor but it is just another of the Kerry lies. The O'Hara-Hess & Eisenhardt has a web site that explains all that I have told you. I have written my State Senator Carl Levin to explain why he has been blocking this armor of so long and have never gotten a reply from him. I guess he is to ashamed of what he has done to our troops. Do you think. |
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Nathanyl
PO3
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Wow that's interesting ocsparky. I'm thinking of emailing Hannity about this. If I do would mind if I added your info?
_________________
Bill Hershey
www.worldwar4.net |
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SangRun Hunter
PO1
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 462
Location: Zinzinnati
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:42 am Post subject: |
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I live in Cincinnati and Fairfield is one of it's northern suburbs and I used to live their myself.
The other day I was on my way to the my Doctor's office which is about 1.5 miles from Eisenhardt as it is called around here.
I saw 3 Humvee's on a flatbed semi tralier coming from that area. I assume they are on their way over to the middle east as they were desert tan and the direction they were going was towards the railyards.
This is not the first time I have seen that either.
In Carl Zinsmeister book Dawn over Baghdad he talks of local Iraqi steel companies performing this work also for basic think steel plates being placed on weak spots.
Kerry and the Dems will use every dirty trick to regain power even when people like us know and see what really is happening.
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