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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | edited by Moderator
For you to get on your high-horse about saving innocent lives is laughable, while your party financed the murderous Contra's and many other murderous, genocidal groups. If you want to save lives, why aren't you sending soldiers to Africa and South America?
Because you are not interested in anything but driving a big car and living in a big house. You do not want to help people, you want to control them. You want the oil in Iraq and the rest of the region. This is NOT a humanitarian war!!! Get over it!
Nuff said. |
Readers,
Note the pathological inability of this poster to answer the straightforward question I repeatedly raised : is the sacrifice of the U.S. military "worth it" in humanitarian calculus in saving living Iraqi and other Arabs from the fate of the myriad dead at the hands of the (former) Baathist regime?
I cannot get a straight answer, only hysterical, tangential, moral-relativistic, "the problem is your fault anyway" dodges and crutches attempting to deflect from the true issues: the confusion, amorality and racism of the left.
This is a significant, fascinating, reproducible, and illuminating phenomenon.
Study this carefully. John Kerry is the Avatar of this phenomonon.
FDL
Last edited by fortdixlover on Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kyleparr
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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NO. the lives lost since the removal of Saddam are not. They are wasted. They will not help stablilize Iraq, have created more terrorists in Iraq and across the world, and will not solve one damn thing for the people of Iraq.
You obviously do not understand the dynamic of Iraq. the Baathists are done and it is now time for the Sunni's and the Shiites to begin killing each other. Your puppet Iraqi governemt is not going to stop anything.
You arrogant people think you can change that or that they give a crap what you condecending, holier than thou Imperialists think. They hate the policies of the US government a hell of a lot more now than they did 3 years ago. You just feel so justified by your manifest destiny attitudes.
The world looks on us with much greater disdain now than they EVER did during the Clinton administration. What Bush has brought to America is a liar and swindler that isw willing to kill to forward his agenda, and that is what the world sees. He has not restored anything to the oval office. He is a piece of crap.
You are the party of war and hate. You are the party of money and greed. You are the party for corporations, not people. You are the party for bigots. You are the party of religious zealots. You are the party that has made the world hate us. You are the party that brought terrorism.
Accept your responsibility. |
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AZ3
Ensign
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 53
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Bah.
_________________
Helantisubron 4, 1970-1974, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club member, Shellback, American. Nuff said. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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This board is to be for discussions and debates concerning why John F. Kerry is or isn't qualified to be President and Commander-in-Chief of the United States of America. NOT to post opinions concerning President George W. Bush or any member of his Administration.
Keep it that way!
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | NO. the lives lost since the removal of Saddam are not. They are wasted. They will not help stablilize Iraq, have created more terrorists in Iraq and across the world, and will not solve one damn thing for the people of Iraq.
You obviously do not understand the dynamic of Iraq. the Baathists are done and it is now time for the Sunni's and the Shiites to begin killing each other. Your puppet Iraqi governemt is not going to stop anything.
You arrogant people think you can change that or that they give a crap what you condecending, holier than thou Imperialists think. They hate the policies of the US government a hell of a lot more now than they did 3 years ago. You just feel so justified by your manifest destiny attitudes.
The world looks on us with much greater disdain now than they EVER did during the Clinton administration. What Bush has brought to America is a liar and swindler that isw willing to kill to forward his agenda, and that is what the world sees. He has not restored anything to the oval office. He is a piece of crap.
You are the party of war and hate. You are the party of money and greed. You are the party for corporations, not people. You are the party for bigots. You are the party of religious zealots. You are the party that has made the world hate us. You are the party that brought terrorism.
Accept your responsibility. |
Wow. Behold the racist, elitist low expectations of this poster towards the Arabs. They are no better than scorpions and tarantulas placed into a bottle (paraphrasing an old tome by Sen. Joe Lieberman) in this poster's view, doomed to forever be locked in internecine murderous conflict approaching the concentration-camp butchery that Saddam Hussein imposed on his own people.
John Kerry likely shares the same assessment as this reader. This is another attribute that makes him unfit as a U.S. president.
Any Iraqi Arab reading the assessment of the above poster about them would be highly insulted. It is saying they are unfit for, and unable to maintain, basic civil liberties in their society.
This is the same assessment that liberals have against other minorities in the U.S. and why they feel those minorities are doomed to victimhood and need liberal "help."
I don't make this stuff up; I am just an observational scientist.
As to the "World's Opinions", I believe the above poster neglected to read the thread I posted on that issue. I repeat:
So-called "world opinion" is not the unanimous and just consensus that its seekers pretend. (Observe that the phrase never includes the many pro-American foreigners, such as freedom-fighters in Iran.) It is the irrational and unjust opinion of the world's worst people: the Islamists who seek to subjugate the world to Islamic rule, the socialists and pacifists who seek to subjugate U.S. sovereignty to UN rule, and the legions of "moderate" followers who support or sympathize with these goals.
And as to "you are the party that brought terrorism", that is simply too hysterical to merit a response. Deep, profound mental pathology is at work in those who make such statements.
FDL
Last edited by fortdixlover on Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:40 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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carpro
Admin
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | NO. the lives lost since the removal of Saddam are not. They are wasted. They will not help stablilize Iraq, have created more terrorists in Iraq and across the world, and will not solve one damn thing for the people of Iraq.
You obviously do not understand the dynamic of Iraq. the Baathists are done and it is now time for the Sunni's and the Shiites to begin killing each other. Your puppet Iraqi governemt is not going to stop anything.
You arrogant people think you can change that or that they give a crap what you condecending, holier than thou Imperialists think. They hate the policies of the US government a hell of a lot more now than they did 3 years ago. You just feel so justified by your manifest destiny attitudes.
The world looks on us with much greater disdain now than they EVER did during the Clinton administration. What Bush has brought to America is a liar and swindler that isw willing to kill to forward his agenda, and that is what the world sees. He has not restored anything to the oval office. He is a piece of crap.
You are the party of war and hate. You are the party of money and greed. You are the party for corporations, not people. You are the party for bigots. You are the party of religious zealots. You are the party that has made the world hate us. You are the party that brought terrorism.
Accept your responsibility. |
Here's your chance, Kyle (Mr. Undecided...remember?).
How will Kerry fix all that is, in your opinion, wrong in Iraq?
_________________
"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service." |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| carpro wrote: |
How will Kerry fix all that is, in your opinion, wrong in Iraq? |
Kerry will attempt cowardly appeasement as he did with the North Vietnamese Communists, to the detriment of millions. Kerry keeps company with, and does not denounce, fellow Dems such as the leftists below. This is not realpolitik; it is palpable, demonstrable evidence of the profound moral degeneracy of the left. Kerry cannot fix anything that requires respect for all peoples in my opinion. Kerry does not have the moral clarity.
The article below is quite strong. I challenge any left-winger to unequivocally condemn racists like "Professor" West, Khalid Abdul Muhammad, and Al Sharpton (a 'candidate' who Kerry stood on the same stage with without objection).
Cornel West and Friends
By Mike Adams
June 7, 2004
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13637
The following correspondence is excerpted from a chapter in Welcome to the Ivory Tower of Babel by Mike S. Adams.
Dear Professor West:
I have been trying to get in touch with you for several days but haven’t had much luck. First, an e-mail I sent you bounced back with an automated response indicating that you do not read, write, or answer e-mail. I also called your secretary who informed me that you have been out of your office lately. Therefore, I thought I would write with a few quick questions inspired by a conversation I recently had with an untenured colleague. He takes offense that our university has invited you to speak on our campus because he thinks that you are an anti-Semite. I just want to get some information from you before I decide whether I agree.
The first time I heard you speak, you were sitting on a panel on a cable television broadcast. Although it was many years ago, I believe you were discussing various racial issues such as affirmative action. I also remember that you were seated next to Khalid Abdul Muhammad of the Nation of Islam. On the phone, your secretary confirmed that you and Khalid were friends and that you had made various public appearances together.
When I saw you on television with Muhammad, I immediately remembered a speech he had delivered in 1993 at Keane College, during which he said the following:
If the white man don’t get out of town by sundown, we kill everything white in South Africa. We kill the women, we kill the children, we kill the babies. We kill the f****t, we kill the lesbian, we kill them all.
Muhammad also said the following about Jews:
The so-called Jew is a European strain of people who crawled around on all fours in the caves and hills of Europe, eating juniper roots and eating each other. You (Jews) slept with your dead for 2000 years, smelling the stench coming up from the decomposing body. You slept in your urination and your defecation . . . The so-called Jews are bloodsuckers of the black nation . . . That’s why you call yourself Rubenstein, Goldstein and Silverstein, because you’ve been stealing rubies and gold and silver all over the earth… Everybody talks about Hitler exterminating six million Jews. That’s right. But don’t nobody talk about what they do to Hitler.
It struck me as odd that you would appear on national television seated next to such a virulent racist. At the time you were a Harvard Professor, a widely read author, and had spoken more than once at my university. Even back then, I wondered why we would pay for a speaker who made public appearances with genocidal racists like Muhammad. Not long after that, I decided to go to the library to search for some of your publications.
When I got to the library I noticed that you had collaborated on a publication with a noted feminist professor named Bell Hooks. I immediately remembered reading an essay by Hooks in which she described an unfortunate incident on an airplane. She was sitting in first-class with a friend (whom she referred to only as “K”) when a white man approached with a boarding pass assigned to the seat in which “K” was sitting. An attendant then informed “K” that her upgrade to first-class had not been completed and that it was too late to fix it. She then moved to coach. The white man sat down in the seat actually assigned to him and then apologized. Hooks rejected his apology and accused him of both racism and sexism. She then proceeded to pen the following: “I am writing this essay sitting beside an anonymous white male that I long to murder.” It seems like a lot of your friends want to kill people because of the color of their skin. Doesn’t that bother you?
Later, I came across a library entry for a book you had written, called Race Matters. I checked out the book and started reading the following sentence that appears on page three: “What happened in Los Angeles in April of 1992 was neither a race riot nor a class rebellion.” I immediately began to think about all of the whites that were dragged out of their cars and beaten solely on the basis of race. Reginald Denny, the truck driver who was kicked, beaten, and nearly killed by a cinder block that was repeatedly dropped on his head was the first to come to mind.
I then read the next sentence that said, “Rather, this monumental upheaval was a multi-racial, trans-class, and largely male display of justified social rage.” That was all I needed to hear. In my opinion, no one who refers to racially motivated violence as “justified” is worth reading. I would greatly appreciate if you would write back to tell me where I am wrong.
A few years later, I caught an interview you did on the O’Reilly Factor shortly after the controversial 2000 Presidential election. The show’s host, Bill O’Reilly, responded to a comment you made about black voter disenfranchisement by asking you whether voting machines in Florida could tell the difference between white and non-white voters. In other words, were the machines capable of somehow spotting black voters and then rejecting only their votes? I noticed that you never answered the question. You just urged viewers to consider the “fact” that those machines were built and put in place in a state with a long history of white supremacy and lynching.
Later, O’Reilly asked you about your alliance with Reverend Al Sharpton who is perhaps best known for his support of Tawana Brawley. As you already know, Brawley made national headlines when she claimed that she had been raped by three white men who then smeared her with excrement and wrote “KKK” and “n**ger” all over her body. After a New York grand jury concluded that she fabricated the story, Sharpton continued to echo her discredited claims. Although Sharpton himself was later sued for his comments and continues to pay damages, I noticed that you continue to be one of the biggest supporters of his bid for the Presidency. In the interview, you also refused to admit that Brawley was lying. I believe you said that the grand jury’s decision was one view of what happened, but not the only view.
After seeing your interview on the Factor, I decided to pick up another of your books in order to better understand your perspective on racial matters. As I sat in my office reading your book entitled Keeping Faith, I had a hard time understanding what you were saying. For example, I found the following passage hard to comprehend:
Following the model of the black diasporan traditions of music, athletics, and rhetoric, black cultural workers must constitute and sustain discursive and institutional networks that deconstruct earlier modern black strategies for identity-formation, demystify power relations that incorporate class, patriarchal, and homophobic biases, and construct more multivalent and multidimensional responses that articulate the complexity and diversity of black practices in the modern and postmodern world.
Reacquainting myself with your writings raised some of my old questions about you. For example, why do you make public appearances and co-author articles with racists and anti-Semites? Why can’t you just say that a voting machine can’t think, let alone conspire against blacks? And why can’t you just admit that Tawana Brawley was lying?
After returning Keeping Faith to the library, I thought of some new questions. Perhaps most importantly, I wondered why (in the midst of a state budget crisis and tuition hikes) my university paid you $12,000 to speak recently? I have many other questions but I know you are busy. Perhaps you can write when you get back to the office. I would love to hear your “deconstruction” of my narrative.
I look forward to hearing from you, professor.
This is excerpted from chapter in Welcome to the Ivory Tower of Babel by Mike S. Adams. |
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kyleparr
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:02 am Post subject: |
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You know fortdixlover; this is your most ridiculous response yet. It has nothing to do with anything. Who cares about Cornel West? It is like saying you are represented by Timothy McVeigh. Of course, I do think that you and Joe McCarthy were separated at birth. COMMIES EVERYWHERE!!!!!
No matter who is President, I think we need to get the rest of the world to come into Iraq and begin running it with us, while we figure out how to get the hell out. |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | You know fortdixlover; this is your most ridiculous response yet. It has nothing to do with anything. Who cares about Cornel West? It is like saying you are represented by Timothy McVeigh. Of course, I do think that you and Joe McCarthy were separated at birth. COMMIES EVERYWHERE!!!!!
No matter who is President, I think we need to get the rest of the world to come into Iraq and begin running it with us, while we figure out how to get the hell out. |
Well guess what Kyle, the United Scam Artists and Nabobs, just signed, unanimously, a resolution that in theory fulfills your wishes. Guess what? Absolutely nothing! Just like 14 UNSCAM resolutions before it they'll do nothing but try to suck the blood out of the Iraqi people!
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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Theresa Alwood
Rear Admiral
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 631
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| I would go in a minute to defend this great country of ours. We can either defeat terrorist on their soil in the middle east OR it WILL be brought here and we can become like Israel where we will have suicide bombers! The choice is yours. I would much rather have the men and women who have been trained to fight wars fight this war rather than see my children have to know what a gas mask is and how to use it. It is really nieve of people to think that if we sit back and do nothing we will be safe...where have you been for the 10 years that we have had one terrroist attack after another (WTC, Khobar Towers, Two Embassies is East Africa, USS Cole and then we have 09-11). You need to really take a reality check and look to what will happen in our country if we do not defeat terrorist. Terrorist want ALL AMERICANS dead...they are not only going to pick and choose a few...09-11 showed that. When we were attacked in Pearl Harbor there was no discussion amongst us...we knew what was right and what we had to do...everyone made sacrifices. Now we have all these anti-americans...on darn it I forget some people call them anti-war demostrators, who hurt this country by their protesting and yes the terrorist are laughing at us because some of us have their heads buried in the sand. I am proud to be an American and I will wear by red, white and blue and I will defend her everytime...and if it means taking up arms against a terrorist...give me a gun. I did received ribbons for expert marksmanship so I can hit my mark. |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Kyle, how many lives may have been lost due to Kerry's abandoning his crew and joinging VVAW and helping to prolong the war another 5 years? Didn't he also waste lives and make their sacrifice a waste by ridiculing and demeaning their efforts, as well as cave in to communism?
My answer would be a real big yes. |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Lew, here's your answer:
As for the thousands of Vietnam Veterans that backed Kerry in 71, it's been well documented that many of those Veterans that testified in Detroit were in fact planted and gave false testimony, as many of them were never in the military at all, and the ones that were, many of them were never in or near Vietnam. Therefore, the testimony that Kerry gave before Congress in 71 was lies and fabrications designed to plant the idea that all Vietnam Veterans were involved routinely in war crimes.
Kerry, Fonda, Hoffman, Hayden, Clark and the other anti-war people, groups, including the VVAW staged scripted rallies and theater purposely designed to convince America that all Vietnam Veterans practiced and committed war crimes and atrocities on a daily basis as routine SOP authorized, ordered and backed by their superior officers, chain of command, and of course the Pentagon and White House. This was all lies, and is the basis of what the majority of Vietnam Veterans in our nation, in the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and other organizations are objecting to, and bringing to the front in the news media, and boards like this one.
The truly sad part is that their actions worked and convinced the majority of Americans that the war in Vietnam was lost even before TET, when in reality, the NVA lost every battle in TET, and the North Vietnamese were seriously considering suing for surrender, but the activities of the above anti-war groups and media convinced them to continue their fight, because they knew and were counting on these groups turning the majority of Americans against the war, and forcing the American government to give up on the war, and sue for peace.
Had the anti-war people, groups and media not done their magic on the American Public, the North Vietnamese would have sued for peace in 1968, and shortly afterwards the war would have been over. These groups were directly responsible for the deaths of many US forces. The majority of US casulities occured after TET.
Casualities:
1961-1965
KIA
1,864
Total Deaths
1,864
WIA
7,337
MIA
18
Total
9,219
1966
KIA
5,008
Total Deaths
6,053
WIA
29,992
MIA
61
Total
36,106
1967
MIA
9,378
Total Deaths
11,058
WIA
56,013
MIA
113
Total
67,184
1968
KIA
14,594
Total Deaths
16,511
WIA
87,338
MIA
176
Total
104,025
1969
KIA
9,414
Total Deaths
11,527
WIA
55,390
MIA
112
Total
67,029
1970
KIA
4,221
Total Deaths
6,065
WIA
24,835
MIA
101
Total
31,001
1971
KIA
1,380
Total Deaths
2,348
WIA
18,109
MIA
16
Total
20,473
1972
KIA
300
Total Deaths
561
WIA
3,936
MIA
11
Total
4,508
1961-1967
KIA
16,250
1968-1972
KIA
29,909
Total KIA
46,159
1961-1967
Total Deaths
18,975
1968-1972
Total Deaths
37,012
Total Deaths
55,987
1961-1967
WIA
93,342
1968-1972
WIA
189,608
Total WIA
282,950
1961-1967
MIA
192
1968-1972
MIA
416
Total MIA
608
1961-1967
Total
112,509
1968-1972
Total
227,036
Total of 61-72
339,545
I'd have to say that from 1961 to 1967 a total of just KIA casualities 16,250 as opposed to between 1968 to 1972 the KIA casualities were 29,909 makes the point that after the largest amount of casualities in the Vietnam War were after the TET offensive in January of 1968!
So therefore, i.e., since the North Vietnamese were willing to sue for peace after their massive defeat in the TET Offensive in 1968, and didn't because of the anti-war crowd's activities back in the USA, and their belief that if they just kept at it, eventually the anti-war movement back in the USA would turn America against the War, and cause America to turn tail, and run is true!
Therefore, the activities of the anti-war movement in the US, including that of Senator John F. Kerry, Jane Fonda, and others directly let not only to the continued fighting in SEA, instead of the North Vietnamese not suing for peace in 1968, but contributed to more deaths, casualities, MIA's, WIA's than before 1968.
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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LewWaters
Admin
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 4042
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Dog, that's my point to Kyle. If he can say the lives lost in Iraq are already wasted, then he needs to step up and admit to thousands of American and possibly millions of Vietnamese lives lost due the efforts of Kerry, Fonda, et. al. |
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kyleparr
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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I am not sure if that is completely the case. The majority of the people were killed under the REPUBLICAN NIXON ADMINSTRATION! And we all know how honest that group was.
How is it that you leave out that fact??? How is it? This is what is called distorting the facts.
Of course, becuase you are SOOO dedicated to Ronald Reagan, I will quote him here.
Facts are stupid things. - Ronald Reagan
So it all makes sense now. |
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fortdixlover
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| kyleparr wrote: | | You know fortdixlover; this is your most ridiculous response yet. It has nothing to do with anything. |
Sir,
As an exercise, I challenge you to write about say- just two or three of the many possible connections between the current disgust with Kerry and the Cornel West article, even though you might disagree with them.
It is likely that you lack the intellectual horsepower to make the connections, not that the connections do not exist.
| kyleparr wrote: | | I am not sure if that is completely the case [the anti-war chaos caused by the VVAW caused the war to be lost]. The majority of the people were killed under the REPUBLICAN NIXON ADMINSTRATION! |
Total Logical Disconnect
Example: I enjoy pasta because my house is made of bricks.
FDL
Last edited by fortdixlover on Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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