SwiftVets.com

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NEWS, January 27, 1994
Copyright 1994 Cable News Network, Inc. All rights reserved CNN
Transcript # 659-7
SECTION: News; Domestic


HEADLINE: Many say Ending Embargo Will Help Find MIAs in Vietnam

One senator says it's a mistake to end the economic embargo against Vietnam. But another says lifting the embargo will help the U.S. learn the fate of over 1,000 Americans still listed as missing in action.

JUDY WOODRUFF, Anchor: Joining us now are two law makers who both fought in the Vietnam War, but who disagree on whether the U.S. government should restore relations. Senator John Kerry, Democrat from Massachusetts, was one of the sponsors of today's resolutions. He has just returned from Vietnam. Senator Robert Smith is a Republican from New Hampshire and was Vice Chairman of the Select Committee on POW MIA Affairs.

Senator Smith, this is just a sense of the Senate Resolution. Why did you have such a big problem with it?

Sen. ROBERT SMITH (R-NH): Well, that's correct. It is a sense of the Senate Resolution. However, the president has a large contingency within his own government who wants to life this embargo. He needs cover to do it because he doesn't have the credibility because he's not a veteran and he had the draft problem. And this gives him the cover and it's unfortunate. I think it's a black mark on the Senate from my perspective. I think it's blackmail. The Vietnamese have blackmailed us into this. They've basically convinced the senate that they'll get more information now when we capitulate. So I think it's a bad day for the senate and for America and certainly for the families and the veterans.

WOODRUFF: Senator Kerry, is this blackmail by the Vietnamese?

Sen. JOHN KERRY (D-MA): No. And it's not a dark day for the senate. I think it exhibited enormous courage and vision by the senate and an understanding of the fact that this is the way we're going to get answers. You know, Bob Smith and the people who are most vehement about this, had their way for 19 years. Nothing happened. They had their total blockade, don't do anything, just hard line it. And you know what? The families got no answers. Now, General Vessey, who incidentally has worked at this, a decorated war hero, supports doing this. Admiral Larson, our men in the field, the generals and our troops and I just visited them, American troops on the ground in Vietnam, struggling to get the answers, have all said to us, lift the embargo, ti will help us get answers. And I have personally gone into prisons, help get archives. Bob Smith's helped do it. He's seen how it works. It works because we've cooperated and President Bush set up a process with the Vietnamese that said, if you help us in the archives, if you help us get remains, we will lift the embargo. They have been helping us. And it's our turn to keep the deal.

WOODRUFF: Senator Smith, doesn't Senator Kerry have a point. Nineteen years have gone by. The Vietnamese have not been forthcoming. Maybe this is the way to get them to release the information you're looking for.

Sen. SMITH: Well, of course they've not been forthcoming. And the 19 years of fighting that we have done to try to get the Vietnamese to be accountable. That's what all, the President of the United States today and his predecessors have fought to do. The question is, is a moral one here. It's a principal. It's one of principal. It's one of morals. Do we in fact, capitulate to the Vietnamese? In essence, what we have done today is said to the Vietnamese, we have won. The last battle of the Vietnam War was fought today on the floor of the United States Senate and the Senate led the Vietnamese to victory. And I think it's very sad. Because if you look back to the Paris Peace Accords in 1973, the Vietnamese were very specific. We expect war reparations. We didn't get 'em. And they held back the whole time. And we simply gave in and when you think of the years of pain and suffering that these families have endured on this roller coaster ride of deception and perpity by the Vietnamese, to give into this blackmail today, I think is outrageous.

Sen. KERRY: May I say, may I respond and say that I think it is really tragic to hear a fellow veteran saying that John McCain who spent six and a half years in a Hanoi prison, Chuck Robb who is a combat vet, Marine platoon leader, Bob Kerry who lost a leg and is a Medal of Honor winner, has somehow given into the Vietnamese. That's a sad way to define their difference in judgment with you Bob, as to how we will get answers. Every single combat veteran in the United States Senate, combat veteran, voted to do this. And we voted to do this because we are keeping faith, not just with the Vietnamese who fought with us who are waiting in Vietnam today for us to come back and give them democracy. But we kept faith with the veterans and the families who we believe will get answers. And I can show you, Judy, I can show you the cases that have been resolved in the last two years because we have cooperated.

So the choice here, if you do what Bob Smith wants to do and the families want to do, the Vietnamese could shut this operation down on us tomorrow. That's the reality. And I voted to get the answers for the families. I did not vote for this kind of recrimination and I think we ought to move beyond it.
WOODRUFF: Senator Smith?

Sen. SMITH: Well, first of all, I never said that about any of the senators you mentioned. I served in the combat zone as well.

Sen. KERRY: Well, you automatically, when you say -

Sen. SMITH: No, I didn't automatically. John, let me respond, I didn't interrupt you.

Sen. KERRY: When you say that the United States Senate has capitulated.

WOODRUFF: If you would, Senator Kerry.

Sen. SMITH: I didn't interrupt you. I did not insinuate that. As a matter of fact I have made points of saying.

Sen. KERRY: You said it point blank.

Sen. SMITH: That everybody on this issue has spoken honorably. I didn't make any such insinuation whatsoever.

Sen. KERRY: You just said the senate capitulated, Bob.

Sen. SMITH: They did.

Sen. KERRY: Well, then you're saying it.

Sen. SMITH: They did. They did. That does not mean that people don't have honest differences of opinion. I said the senate capitulated and John, you, as long as you've been pretty nasty toward me, John. Your agenda has been to lift the embargo. You wanted to lift the embargo in spite of the POW/MIA issue since 1990. You're on record as saying it. You know it and I know it. That's your agenda. My agenda is to get a counting before we lift the embargo.
WOODRUFF: Senator -

Sen. SMITH: Your agenda is to lift the embargo.

WOODRUFF: Senator Kerry, how much potential business are we talking about here between the United States and Vietnam?

Sen. KERRY: I don't have clue Judy and I've never made that part of my argument, ever, and Bob and everybody else knows, I traveled to Vietnam eight times. I fought to declassify documents. I've negotiated with the Vietnamese. I think that Bob knows, we worked side by side and closely, to get accountability and I voted against lifting the embargo last year in order to guarantee we were getting the accountability.

WOODRUFF: But clearly, there would be economic benefit for Vietnam and for some U.S. businesses if this embargo were lifted.

Sen. KERRY: Well, undoubtedly. But you asked me how much and I'm telling you I don't have a clue how much.

Sen. SMITH: Judy, the president today in a remark from Mr. McMurray, McCurry rather at the State Department, said that the president has conditioned any lifting of the embargo on achieving the fullest possible accounting. So that's at odds with what Senator Kerry and those in the senate who voted with him, did today. So, all I'm saying is the president has made his position clear.

Sen. KERRY: That is not accurate. The president, the president -

Sen. SMITH: Well, I'm reading, here's a quote, John, and you can read it yourself.

Sen. KERRY: I don't know what somebody quoted and said. But the president's policy is to have the Vietnamese show cooperation in getting remains, in getting the archives open, in the tri-lateral commission and in the discrepancy cases. And it does not say that you will have the fullest possible accounting before you proceed forward because you won't have the fullest possible accounting for 50 years. Witness, a soldier from Guadalcanal who fought with John Chaffee, who's body was returned only a year and a half ago. You won't have it for 40 years or 50 years.

Sen. SMITH: You know that I know that I don't expect, nor do I hold the Vietnamese to that kind of accounting. We hold the Vietnamese to account for the information that they have in their possession. You go from one side to another. First, you say if we lift the embargo, we'll have a full accounting. Then you say we ought to lift the embargo to, you know, it's, you're just on both sides of the issue.

Sen. KERRY: I believe, Senator Smith, that we still have enormous leverage. We have the leverage of normalization, the leverage of human rights, the leverage of MFN, the leverage of loans, the leverage of all of these businesses in the trade relationships. We have enormous leverage in the future and I believe we have opened the door to better cooperation and I am willing to bet you that we will show you that cooperation over the next months.

WOODRUFF: All right, Senator Smith, Senator Kerry, I have a feeling we didn't come any closer together in our views tonight. But we thank both of you.

Sen. SMITH: Well, we've been fighting it for three years. You might as well keep on, I guess.

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BUMP!

[NavyChief]

Yep. That brings back memories when I first joined Task Force Russia -- US/Russia Joint Commission on POW/MIAs. Both Senators were Co-Chairman of my commission.

I can tell you now that Senator Smith did far more for the POW/MIA issue than Kerry could ever hope to.

- Chief
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Working with Senator Kerry four years in the POW/MIA Office left me thinking -- when did the man ever do any work?

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Sigh..............