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Larry Martin
Guest
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 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:43 am Post subject: Drafted Veteran? |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Drafted Veteran? |
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| Larry Martin wrote: | All that being said, I was wondering if anyone drafted or otherwise here that could verify if there's any truth to the report that John Kerry excepted an honor in 1993 by the North Vietnamese for helping them win the war?
Larry Martin |
As perhaps the first person on this board who is awake/reading this, allow me to say . . . . . . no.
If you hadn't mentioned the year I wouldn't have had a clue as to what you were talking about. But, since that's the year the picture which is in the War Remnants Museum in Saigon was taken, my guess is that's it.
Anyway, he isn't accepting any type of honor in the photo.
Doug |
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Tad Belknap
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:15 am Post subject: |
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For a man as calculating as John Kerry, he calculated 3 Purple Hearts a Bronze and Silver Star in 3 1/2 months would be enough for his political war time resume, I'd have to say No ! he never accepted an award from the communist Vietnamese govrnment for help in ending the war.
Kerry shot a man in the back just to watch him die........ |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Tad Belknap wrote: |
Kerry shot a man in the back just to watch him die........ |
Interesting, Ted. Where's you get this from?
Doug |
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Tad Belknap
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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the poor SOB that was lying of the ground after getting lit up with a .50 cal....the VC Kerry found behind the hooch that had been carrying the B40 rocket launcher....  "the Silver Star" action |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Tad Belknap wrote: | | the poor SOB that was lying of the ground after getting lit up with a .50 cal....the VC Kerry found behind the hooch that had been carrying the B40 rocket launcher.... "the Silver Star" action |
Well, no one who was there -- and in particular the .50 cal gunner -- has ever said he was hit by the .50 cal. In fact, the .50 cal gunner has specifically said he didn't hit him. And he couldn't have, as the safety bar prevented him from doing so. And when he was firing, he wasn't trying to hit him.
Complain about Kerry's post-war action if you want, but repeating these lies -- and that's what they are -- accomplishes nothing.
Doug |
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Tad Belknap
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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just my opinion....should have made that clear in my first post, I apoligize
Kerry shot a man in the back just to watch him die....
in my opinion. |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Tad Belknap wrote: | just my opinion....should have made that clear in my first post, I apoligize
Kerry shot a man in the back just to watch him die....
in my opinion. |
No need to apologize. I mean, he did shoot the guy, as we all would have given the circumstances.
Doug |
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have to admit, I would have shot him too.
Of course, I probably wouldn't have been in a position to shoot him, as I was trained that acting like a cowboy gets people killed. Not just the cowboy, but the people around him.
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| nakona wrote: | I have to admit, I would have shot him too.
Of course, I probably wouldn't have been in a position to shoot him, as I was trained that acting like a cowboy gets people killed. Not just the cowboy, but the people around him. |
Should the guy with the B-40 have been inclined to shoot it, and we don't know if that's the case, then your name and the names of some on your crew could be on The Wall.
Look up Dan Droz. He was there 28 Feb, and that is what happened to him 6 weeks later -- him and one of his crew, a few miles away from where they were 28 Feb, killed by a B-40.
Kerry was the one who could jump off and do what needed to be done the quickest -- and speed was the name of the game, because if the guy was going to shoot the B-40, he wasn't going to wait around to do so.
But I have a feeling that if you were in Kerry's shoes, you would have done exactly what he did.
Doug |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nakona wrote: | I have to admit, I would have shot him too.
Of course, I probably wouldn't have been in a position to,shoot him, as I was trained that acting like a cowboy gets people killed. Not just the cowboy, but the people around him. |
Hell yes! I would have too!
But the whole debate on this issue comes downs to two things. 1) Why did Kerry beach the boat bow to, which was a clear violation of a.) common sense, and b) command directions?
As to command direction, I can't speak for Swifts but in River Patrol and Riverine service, where I spent a year as a Boat Captain and Patrol Officer on Assault Support Patrol Boats, it was a written directive from both of my Squadron Commander in Riverine and Division C.O. in Patrol
As to common sense! When you put the the bow of a boat ashore you raise the bow of the boat as much as 20% degrees above horizontal. The major weapon on a Swift was in a twin .50 cal. mount on top of the deckhouse. The depression bar on the mount would have prevented them from being brought on target. The same is likely for the M-60 pedestal mount on the bow.
Therefore, Kerry beached the boat in such a way that no armament, other than handheld stuff like M-16's and sidearms, could be used. Brain-dead and in violation of what I believe was probably a standing order regarding actions while in contact.
I understand from Doug Reese that Kerry had a squad or two of RFPF forces aboard. Why weren't they deployed rather than abandoning the command that he had already compromised by beaching it in the middle of a firefight?
The beaching decision was wrong...that's just a fact. Ok, so guys make mistakes in combat. I sure as hell made my share but to go over the side to chase down a VC is crazy. He was obviously on deck with the M-16. Why not blast the mother on full-auto?
Oh yeah, the bow was to high to see anything.
If I'd made an after action report of an evolution like this one I would have been, at a minimum, reprimanded. Sure as hell not awarded a Silver Star. I have a Silver Star! I know what's involved in really earning one. It's for saving lives and completing a mission; and not for unnecessarily risking them.
My ultiimate question is. Who put Kerry in for a valor award? Kerry? Almost certainly, as he was the OINC of the boat and, from what I've read, the task group.
Nuff said for now.
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB
Last edited by ASPB on Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: | | Should the guy with the B-40 have been inclined to shoot it, and we don't know if that's the case, then your name and the names of some on your crew could be on The Wall. |
Actually, no. I'm an 80's Veteran.
But I disagree with your assesment.
Understand, I cannot speak with any authority on the specifics of what happened to Kerry, because I wasn't there.
I CAN, however, tell you that in spite of what you see in the movies, SOP usually exists for a very good reason and I can comment on the GENERAL happenings, because it's well known information.
That whole incident smells like an ambush from 30 years and 10,000 miles away.
Why in gods name would you charge that guy with your boat, giving him a better target, when you can mow him down with .50 fire, not to mention the 60's, 16's and blookers that must have been on that boat?
It just doesn't pass the "common sense" test.
EDIT: Typo
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Last edited by nakona on Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tad Belknap
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 49
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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agree ....and give up mobility too
damn good thing he wasn't flying anything, although that would have really been a good war story..... 
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27th M.A.S.H. Chu Lai
95th Evac. Hosp. Danang
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DELTREE
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 34
Location: THE GREAT STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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The research I have done tells me the story is just ********.
For there is no common sense in non-sense(********).
What next from J.Fonda Kerry. up grade his medal to the CMH?
Take Care 
J.Fonda Kerry for Pres.> |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Larry, you have your opinion, I have mine. As a fellow Vietnam Veteran, I don't understand how you can say that John F. Kerry did nothing wrong. You have no problem with him calling you a baby killer, a murderer, a rapist, a war criminal? Maybe if you have no problem with that, then you might have been one of the people that John F. Kerry was talking about! Is that it?
Woof!
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When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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