SwiftVets.com

[Keith]

[Keith]

[kyleparr]

Oh, do you mean Ruby Ridge? No. You didn't because that was Bush administration.

Once again, you try to detract from the point that John Ashcroft is not trying to undermine the rights of a few extremists, but rather change the entire baseline on which freedom is judged.

I am over all of this now. None of you will realize what has happened until something screws you or your neighbor, or you find out the government is keeping secret files on you.

[95 bxl]

[kyleparr]

You obviously have not read the Patriot Act. Want to see how President "LIAR" Bush presents it? Here.

Point-by-Point Rebuttal of George Bush’s speech in Buffalo NY, April 22, 2004

The President:
“By the way, the reason I bring up the Patriot Act, it’s set to expire next year. I’m starting a campaign to make it clear to members of Congress that it shouldn’t expire. It shouldn’t expire for the security of our country.”


The Truth:
Less that 10 percent of the Patriot Act expires; most of the law is permanent and those portions that do sunset will not do so until December 31, 2005.

The President:
“And that changed, the law changed on- roving wiretaps were available for chasing down drug lords. They weren’t available for chasing down terrorists, see?”

The Truth:
Roving wiretaps were available prior to 9/11 against drug lords and terrorists. Prior to the law, the FBI could get a roving wiretap against both when it had probable cause of crime for a wiretap eligible offense. What the Patriot Act did is make roving wiretaps available in intelligence investigations supervised by the secret intelligence court without the judicial safeguards of the criminal wiretap statute.

The President:
“…see, I’m not a lawyer, so it’s kind of hard for me to kind of get bogged down in the law. (Applause). I’m not going to play like one, either. (Laughter.) The way I viewed it, if I can just put it in simple terms, is that one part of the FBI couldn’t tell the other part of the FBI vital information because of the law. And the CIA and the FBI couldn’t talk.”

The Truth:
The CIA and the FBI could talk and did. As Janet Reno wrote in prepared testimony before the 9/11 commission, “There are simply no walls or restrictions on sharing the vast majority of counterterrorism information. There are no legal restrictions at all on the ability of the members of the intelligence community to share intelligence information with each other.

“With respect to sharing between intelligence investigators and criminal investigators, information learned as a result of a physical surveillance or from a confidential informant can be legally shared without restriction.

“While there were restrictions placed on information gathered by criminal investigators as a result of grand jury investigations or Title III wire taps, in practice they did not prove to be a serious impediment since there was very little significant information that could not be shared.”

The President:
“Thirdly, to give you an example of what we’re talking about, there’s something called delayed-notification search warrants. … We couldn’t use these against terrorists [before the Patriot Act], but we could use against gangs.”

The Truth:
Delayed-notification – or so-called sneak-and-peek search warrants – were never limited to gangs. The circuit courts that had authorized them in limited circumstances prior to the Patriot Act did not limit the warrants to the investigation of gangs. In fact, terrorism or espionage investigators did not necessarily have to go through the criminal courts for a covert search – they could do so with even fewer safeguards against abuse by going to a top-secret foreign intelligence court in Washington.


For criminal sneak-and-peek warrants, the Patriot Act added a catch-all argument for prosecutors – if notice would delay prosecution or jeopardize an investigation - which makes these secret search warrants much easier to obtain.

The president’s sneak-and-peek misstatement clearly demonstrates that the Patriot Act is not limited to terrorism. In fact, many of the law’s expanded authorities can clearly be used outside the war on terrorism.

The President:
“Judges need greater authority to deny bail to terrorists.”

The Truth:
The new presumptive detention that the president is proposing takes judicial authority away from the bail process. The presumption would take away the prosecution’s burden of showing that the accused is a danger or flight risk and instead puts it on the accused.

“We’ll be watching the president’s and the vice president’s statements about the Patriot Act very closely, said Laura Murphy, the Director of the Washington office of the ACLU. “ But the White House is clearly fighting a losing, defensive battle for the Patriot Act.”

“The White House is also clearly attempting to silence their critics within the Republican Party, who believe that the Patriot Act went too far, too fast,” Murphy added.

[carpro]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care who listens to my phone conversations. I don't care who knows what I read.

Do you have something to hide, Kyle.

BTW Quoting Janet Reno is not a good idea. Later testimony in front of the 911 commission prove she is a liar.

Ask Gorelick, she knows.
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"If he believes his 1971 indictment of his country and his fellow veterans was true, then he couldn't possibly be proud of his Vietnam service."

[El diablo]

So kyleparr - You've listed talking points from a quarterbacking of a speech - and unable to quote the relevant sections of the patriot act?

You - yes you kyleparr - are a true victim of the media. You've been sucking on the teat of the raving loonies that provide infotainment in return for ads and money. It explains the near hysteria that accompanies your posts here.

Try something new for a change - Read the patriot act - then come back and comment on it. Don't eat up pre-digested stomach funk spoon fed to you by the media that lets you know what they think you need to know. Man up, strap a pair on, and read it yourself.
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Mostly Harmless

[kyleparr]

You guys just don't get it.

FYI - 20 of the top 27 radio talk shows are conservative. Plenty of evidence there for the "left-wing" media. Of which NOONE has provided a single shred of evidence.

Maybe I do have something to hide. Maybe I am gay and in the closet. Maybe I like to talk dirty on the phone. None of that is anyone's business and the government has no right to listen in. They will use the information they get for their own purposes, as proven time and time again! The constitution PROHIBITS it!

El Diablo, I noticed that you failed to deny that BUSH LIED in the speech in order to forward his agenda. Odd.

[BrianC]

Lots of words in this thread.

None of them, however, provide any support to a Kerry candidacy.

That speaks volumes.

[El diablo]

[Marine4life]

I assume that your reference to the Constitution is in reference to the 4th ammendment? Read it , read the Patriot Act then tell us what the heck you are talking about. The 4th ammendment protects you from illegal search and seisure, ensures due process of law. The Patriot Act does not circumvent the requirements of Probable Cause. If you think that anyone will tap your line and is remotely interested in anything that you have to say, well just stay in that dillusional world. Semper Fi.
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Helicopter Marine Attack Squadron 169 which is now HMLA-169. They added Huey's to compliment the Cobra effectiveness. When I served we just had Snakes.

[Navy_Navy_Navy]

[War Dog]

Remember their 'MO', namely:

"Deny, Lie, Change subject, Attack"

Also remember that it was the Democrats and Liberals that tried their best to convince all of America that 'Character doesn't matter!' Look at who the past leaders of the DNC have been, and who their candidate is! Maybe character doesn't matter to them, but to the majority of Veterans, and America, it damn sure does!

Woof!
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"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.

When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit."

[El diablo]

Brought a rifle navy_navy_navy - I like fresh food

As for Ky (I crack myself up) He's in for an annoying time - Lemmingstyle...
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Mostly Harmless

[BrianC]