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Morto
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
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 Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the response Doug.
To say he's the better man without support doesn't cut it for me. Can you explain?
More importantly I think everyone here would appreciate hearing your perspective regarding our war in Nam and of the anti-war movement that Kerry was a leader of in 71-72.
Had he held true to his anti-war position through the intervening years and not made his "war hero" status "the" major theme of his presidential campaign, I probably would have given him a pass as a misguided pacifist, just voted for Bush, and ignored him for the self-aggrandizing socialist fool that he is. There are plenty more like him! Al Gore comes to mind.
His hypocrisy and lies have angered my to the point of activism just as it has the non-partisan founders of this site. I find it difficult to understand why a Viet vet would support him unless they're paid operatives as the "band of brothers" are.
Can you explain your position? At least as to his treachery and hypocrisy?
Tom
_________________
"History tells us that appeasement does not lead to peace. It invites an aggressor to test the will of a nation unprepared to meet that test." --Ronald Reagan |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Morto wrote: | Thanks for the response Doug.
To say he's the better man without support doesn't cut it for me. Can you explain?
More importantly I think everyone here would appreciate hearing your perspective regarding our war in Nam and of the anti-war movement that Kerry was a leader of in 71-72.
Had he held true to his anti-war position through the intervening years and not made his "war hero" status "the" major theme of his presidential campaign, I probably would have given him a pass as a misguided pacifist, just voted for Bush, and ignored him for the self-aggrandizing socialist fool that he is. There are plenty more like him! Al Gore comes to mind.
His hypocrisy and lies have angered my to the point of activism just as it has the non-partisan founders of this site. I find it difficult to understand why a Viet vet would support him unless they're paid operatives as the "band of brothers" are.
Can you explain your position? At least as to his treachery and hypocrisy?
Tom |
I'm not going to get into a discussion that involves any of that, Tom. It's the old "politics and religion" thing as far as I am concerned.
No one is paying me, by the way. Nor am I the only Viet vet who supports him -- not by a long shot.
Doug |
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95 bxl
Seaman
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: | Nor am I the only Viet vet who supports him -- not by a long shot.
Doug |
While it's obvious that more than one Viet vet supports Kerry (after all, TWO Viet vet's supporting Kerry would, technically speaking, making your statement accurate) do you honestly believe, and can you remotely show, where veterans as a group, Vietnam or otherwise, actually support Kerry? |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: |
I have met John Kerry one time since 1969. That was in 1988, and we spent perhaps 30 minutes together. In 1992 or 1993 I shook his hand at a function in DC. That's it.
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"All I can say is that when I first was in his office (1988), his medals definitely weren't up on his office wall, as we walked all around the place -- inner office, outer office, etc. -- with him pointing out several photos from the area were we both served in Vietnam, and there were no medals.
"There was a photo of him receiving the Silver Star from Adm. Zumwalt out on the LST his group operated on, just off the coast. I remember that was done just a few days after the Feb 1969 action took place.
"On a number of subsequent visits, on which I did NOT get the grand tour, I also didn't see the medals. Those same photos, and a few that have been added through the years, but never any medals."
--Doug Reese, Nov 11, 2002
A "number of subsequent visits" eh Reese? Don't tell us, any number of your "subsequent visits" just happened to been when Kerry wasn't in his office....... |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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The whole debate on this issue comes downs to two things. 1) Why did Kerry beach the boat bow to, which was a clear violation of a.) common sense, and b) command directions?
As to command direction, I can't speak for Swifts but in River Patrol and Riverine service, where I spent a year as a Boat Captain and Patrol Officer on Assault Support Patrol Boats, it was a written directive from both of my Squadron Commander in Riverine and Division C.O. in Patrol
As to common sense! When you put the the bow of a boat ashore you raise the bow of the boat as much as 20% degrees above horizontal. The major weapon on a Swift was in a twin .50 cal. mount on top of the deckhouse. The depression bar on the mount would have prevented them from being brought on target. The same is likely for the M-60 pedestal mount on the bow even though it's been said the forward gunner wounded the VC.
Therefore, Kerry beached the boat in such a way that no armament, other than handheld stuff like M-16's and sidearms, could be used. Terrible tactics and in violation of what I believe was probably a standing order regarding actions while in contact.
I understand from Doug Reese that Kerry had a squad or two of RFPF forces aboard. Why weren't they deployed rather than abandoning the command that he had already compromised by beaching it in the middle of a firefight? No Adviser? No Time?
The beaching decision was wrong...that's just a fact. Ok, so guys make mistakes in combat. I sure as hell made my share but to go over the side to chase down a VC is crazy. He was obviously on deck with the M-16. Why not blast the mother with the M-16 on full-auto? The range was what...10 to 15 meters.
Oh yeah, the bow was to high to see anything. 
If I'd made an after action report of an combat evolution like this one I would have been, at a minimum, reprimanded. Sure as hell not awarded a Silver Star. I have a Silver Star! I know what's involved in really earning one. It's for saving lives and completing a mission; and not for unnecessarily risking them.
My ultiimate question is. Who put Kerry in for a valor award? Kerry? Almost certainly, as he was the OINC of the boat and, from what I've read, the task group.
Nuff said for now.
_________________
 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
I have met John Kerry one time since 1969. That was in 1988, and we spent perhaps 30 minutes together. In 1992 or 1993 I shook his hand at a function in DC. That's it.
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"All I can say is that when I first was in his office (1988), his medals definitely weren't up on his office wall, as we walked all around the place -- inner office, outer office, etc. -- with him pointing out several photos from the area were we both served in Vietnam, and there were no medals.
"There was a photo of him receiving the Silver Star from Adm. Zumwalt out on the LST his group operated on, just off the coast. I remember that was done just a few days after the Feb 1969 action took place.
"On a number of subsequent visits, on which I did NOT get the grand tour, I also didn't see the medals. Those same photos, and a few that have been added through the years, but never any medals."
--Doug Reese, Nov 11, 2002
A "number of subsequent visits" eh Reese? Don't tell us, any number of your "subsequent visits" just happened to been when Kerry wasn't in his office....... |
Nice try, but sorry, no cigar.
On the subsequent visits I never met Kerry, and that includes the entire time I have lived in the DC area, since late 1995.
When I went to his office I visited with Pat Gray, Kerry's scheduler -- in years past she was Hubert Humphrey's secretary. She was a fellow Hoosier and told me what was going on with Kerry during those visits, among other things.
While you're looking up all my past posts on the newsgroup alt.war.vietnam and other places, try looking a little harder and you'll see where I mention Pat.
Keep looking for were Kerry and I have been getting together and plotting what I should say about 28 Feb. Make it a full-time job, if you haven't already, but you won't find me saying I have ever met him after Vietnam except for 1988 when we met/spoke for perhaps 30 minutes, and a meet-and-greet a few years later which lasted about 10 seconds.
And the reason you won't find anything is because it never happened.
Doug |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: |
On the subsequent visits I never met Kerry, and that includes the entire time I have lived in the DC area, since late 1995.
When I went to his office I visited with Pat Gray, Kerry's scheduler -- in years past she was Hubert Humphrey's secretary. She was a fellow Hoosier and told me what was going on with Kerry during those visits, among other things.
While you're looking up all my past posts on the newsgroup alt.war.vietnam and other places, try looking a little harder and you'll see where I mention Pat.
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You know Reese edited by Moderator, you claim to have been there on Feb 28, 1969 with Kerry, yet you offer nothing new in the form of details, just that you saw a dead VC on the ground with a leg wound. You have all kinds of cute explanations for why you don't know anything additional then what already has been reported. When pressed for details you come with with lame excuses why you don't know anything, like being deaf from being under firing .50's and couldn't hear if there was fire coming from the other shore line or not.
edited by ModeratorStop the name calling and personal insults towards members! |
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DELTREE
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 34
Location: THE GREAT STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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DougReese, What Army unit were you in? I looked at some of your posts, but couldn't find it. I think h3 is back as Doug? One of Kerry's so called old war protesters? Just the same old commie stuff! I think DougReese is giving us the old commie BS! aka h3.
Take Care and GOD Bless the American Vet
J.Fonda Kerry for Pres.>  |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| DELTREE wrote: | DougReese, What Army unit were you in? I looked at some of your posts, but couldn't find it. I think h3 is back as Doug? One of Kerry's so called old war protesters? Just the same old commie stuff! I think DougReese is giving us the old commie BS! aka h3.
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Sorry, but I have never posted on the net with any e-mail address (dreese@erols.com), or any other name, other than my own.
I told the moderators (Admin?) what units I was in, and may have done so in one of several threads here. Here it is in case I haven't:
I was an FO with the 9th Inf Div from March 1968-Nov 1968. Most of that time with the 6/31st Inf.
From December 1968-August 1969 I was a member of a MATS (Mobile Advisory -- MATS IV-76) team, and as such was in Nam Can District of An Xuyen Province. Ca Mau is the province capital. Nam Can is the southernmost district in the country.
We lived in two villages for most of that time. One was the (temporary) main town of the district, called Dong Cung. The other was a short distance away, called Cai Keo. Both were pretty small - about 700-900 people in each, and both are located on the Bay Hap River.
Doug |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Doug is no one else but Doug. His veteran status has been verified by the Administrator and Moderators of this board. He belongs here as much as any of the rest of us. So, let's stop all the talk about Doug being someone else, or not being a veteran. Give him the same respect that you would want to receive as a veteran.
And let's play nice, no more insults or name calling!
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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The bandit
Commander
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| War Dog wrote: |
Doug is no one else but Doug. His veteran status has been verified by the Administrator and Moderators of this board. He belongs here as much as any of the rest of us. So, let's stop all the talk about Doug being someone else, or not being a veteran. Give him the same respect that you would want to receive as a veteran.
And let's play nice, no more insults or name calling!
Woof! |
Not questioning his Vet status, I am questioning his claims to the events of Feb 28. |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | DougReese wrote: |
On the subsequent visits I never met Kerry, and that includes the entire time I have lived in the DC area, since late 1995.
When I went to his office I visited with Pat Gray, Kerry's scheduler -- in years past she was Hubert Humphrey's secretary. She was a fellow Hoosier and told me what was going on with Kerry during those visits, among other things.
While you're looking up all my past posts on the newsgroup alt.war.vietnam and other places, try looking a little harder and you'll see where I mention Pat.
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You know Reese edited by Moderator, you claim to have been there on Feb 28, 1969 with Kerry, yet you offer nothing new in the form of details, just that you saw a dead VC on the ground with a leg wound. You have all kinds of cute explanations for why you don't know anything additional then what already has been reported. When pressed for details you come with with lame excuses why you don't know anything, like being deaf from being under firing .50's and couldn't hear if there was fire coming from the other shore line or not.
edited by ModeratorStop the name calling and personal insults towards members! |
Well, as I just said in another thread, why don't you ask me over to sign that Form 180 with you? That will answer some of your questions, like whether I was there 28 Feb or not.
But to assist you in comprehending better what I have said in the past, let me see if I can be more clear.
As we were going up the canal, I began to walk forward, to speak to another advisor, who was at the front of the boat. As I walked under the twin .50, which was firing at the time, I experienced a bit of a problem with my hearing. It was like someone had shoved an ice pick in my ear. So, for a few seconds, I wasn't hearing anything.
Then, as I continued moving forward, the boat beached. I didn't know why at first, as this wasn't where we were supposed to stop for that sweep -- it was too early.
I found out soon enough why we beached, when VC started popping up all over the place.
Apparently, some of them had fired right when I walked under the twin .50, which is why I didn't hear anything at that moment. The VC were to the right (east) of the boat.
The quote I read from Kerry in an interview in the past was "I heard some small arms fire".
As to whether or not there was any fire coming from the other side of the canal, I don't think there was at the beginning. If so, it would have had to have been at the precise moment as the firing from the east side. I know that some of Kerry's crew said there was firing coming from the other side as this firefight got underway, but there was no way for me to hear that with all the shooting on my side of the canal, from us and the Swifts.
But come on, why not clear some of this up with me, and you, signing a Form 180? I have nothing to hide.
Doug |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Bandit, I wasn't talking to you directly, but speaking to all posters on this thread. If I was talking to you personally, I would have 'PM'd you. 
Woof!
_________________
"When people are in trouble, they call the cops.
When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| The bandit wrote: | | War Dog wrote: |
Doug is no one else but Doug. His veteran status has been verified by the Administrator and Moderators of this board. He belongs here as much as any of the rest of us. So, let's stop all the talk about Doug being someone else, or not being a veteran. Give him the same respect that you would want to receive as a veteran.
And let's play nice, no more insults or name calling!
Woof! |
Not questioning his Vet status, I am questioning his claims to the events of Feb 28. |
Maybe it's my reading comprehension again, but it sure seemed to me that you were questioning the fact that I was there. I was, of course, and it's verifiable by quite a few people and documents.
Doug |
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cgc
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject: Vetting a Vet |
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If someone has an opposing viewpoint on this bulletin board the first thing that happens is his veterans status is questioned and/or his viewpoint is ridiculed or the accusations start to fly. Not that I mind, but it detracts from good honest debate. The second thing I have noticed, there are a lot of experts here whom seem to know a hell of a lot about Swift Boats with never having sailed on one as a crewmember. In fact there seems to be a lot of Army and other experts who know how the forward fifty's worked best and when they did'nt. How far we pushed our nose up into the mud and how high our bow elevated. When was the best time to return fire, and how many times we went on solo patrol. Actually I am glad Kerry only served 4 months, If I have to read anymore of his manufactured bio or listen to his hero exploits now that he is running for president, I can only imagine what it would read like after 1 year. How quickly we forget that this man turned against our POW's. our wounded, our dead and discredited all of us who served honorably by his very public stance he took after returning from his "tour". That what this forum is all about, not who is or isn't a veteran. John Kerry has not earned the right to lead the men and women who serve the United States, He sure as hell can't be trusted, And there are men of honor and courage, retired Admiral's and Captain's of the United States Navy whom share that opinion. If there was ever a call to arms let me know where the line is for George Bush to be the leader, Thats the one I'm getting in.
cgc An Toi/Danang 68-69 Rode and Drove em I year |
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