SwiftVets.com

[directorblue]

PoliPundit ( http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=4497 ) links to the New York Sun...

[twicearound]

WOW - I emailed this to everyone on my news list hopefully some one will run with it.
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twicearound

[Mary Ann Parker]

Director, This is to augment your important post. Also to keep
down the duplicates for the sake of our wonderful administrators.
PAY ATTENTION TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH


[b]Title: Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge
Source: The New York Sun
URL Source: http://www.nysun.com/article/3107
Published: Oct 13, 2004
Author: THOMAS LIPSCOMB
Post Date: 2004-10-13 06:13:54 by donna
5 Comments


An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.

The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.

According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.

A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.

The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.

The most routine time for Mr. Kerry's discharge would have been at the end of his six-year obligation, in 1972. But how was it most likely to have come about?

NBC's release this March of some of the Nixon White House tapes about Mr. Kerry show a great deal of interest in Mr. Kerry by Nixon and his executive staff, including, perhaps most importantly, Nixon's special counsel, Charles Colson. In a meeting the day after Mr. Kerry's Senate testimony, April 23, 1971, Mr. Colson attacks Mr. Kerry as a "complete opportunist...We'll keep hitting him, Mr. President."

Mr. Colson was still on the case two months later, according to a memo he wrote on June 15,1971, that was brought to the surface by the Houston Chronicle. "Let's destroy this young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader." Nixon had been a naval officer in World War II. Mr. Colson was a former Marine captain. Mr. Colson had been prodded to find "dirt" on Mr. Kerry, but reported that he couldn't find any.

The Nixon administration ran FBI surveillance on Mr. Kerry from September 1970 until August 1972. Finding grounds for an other than honorable discharge, however, for a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, given his numerous activities while still a reserve officer of the Navy, was easier than finding "dirt."

For example, while America was still at war, Mr. Kerry had met with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong delegation to the Paris Peace talks in May 1970 and then held a demonstration in July 1971 in Washington to try to get Congress to accept the enemy's seven point peace proposal without a single change. Woodrow Wilson threw Eugene Debs, a former presidential candidate, in prison just for demonstrating for peace negotiations with Germany during World War I. No court overturned his imprisonment. He had to receive a pardon from President Harding.

Mr. Colson refused to answer any questions about his activities regarding Mr. Kerry during his time in the Nixon White House. The secretary of the Navy at the time during the Nixon presidency is the current chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Warner. A spokesman for the senator, John Ullyot, said, "Senator Warner has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."

The "board of officers" review reported in the Claytor document is even more extraordinary because it came about "by direction of the President." No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president. The president at that time was James Carter. This adds another twist to the story of Mr. Kerry's hidden military records.

Mr. Carter's first act as president was a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. Less than an hour after his inauguration on January 21, 1977, while still in the Capitol building, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering it. By the time it became a directive from the Defense Department in March 1977 it had been expanded to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge.

Mr. Kerry has repeatedly refused to sign Standard Form 180, which would allow the release of all his military records. And some of his various spokesmen have claimed that all his records are already posted on his Web site. But the Washington Post already noted that the Naval Personnel Office admitted that they were still withholding about 100 pages of files.

If Mr. Kerry was the victim of a Nixon "enemies list" hit, one might have expected him to wear it like a badge of honor, like many others such as his friend Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers, CBS's Daniel Schorr, or the actor Paul Newman, who had made Mr. Colson's original list of 20 "enemies."

There are a number of categories of discharges besides honorable. There are general discharges, medical discharges, bad conduct discharges, as well as other than honorable and dishonorable discharges. There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged.

Mr. Kerry has claimed that he lost his medal certificates and that is why he asked that they be reissued. But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well.

And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued.

[Nathanyl]

This could be huge.
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Bill Hershey
www.worldwar4.net

[shawa]

A BLOCKBUSTER!!!!!

October Surprise, anyone? Let's get it out to everyone!!

[docford]

One thing we can pretty certain of is that Kerry did not get a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge, both of which would require an adverse personnel action that would be part of the public record. You know if anyhting like that happened, the Nixon or Ford administration (and the FBI) would have announced to the world that the Navy courts martialed the spokesman for the VVAW.

The most likely scenario is either an administrative discharge, a general or a general under other than honorable conditions. That is something that Kerry would not want released to the public, and it would require a signed SF 180 for the release.
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Doc Ford
HMC (SW) USN

[Hondo]

Allow me to make some observations here. Sadly, they will likely disappoint many reading this.

The most likely scenario is, in fact, an honorable discharge under normal administrative procedures.

Caveat: I am more familiar with Army than Navy personnel practices, but I am fairly sure that what follows is correct and was in fact also correct in 1977/1978.

1. A promotion board for reserve personnel is a "board of officers" convened to make recommendations. At times, I have seen promotion boards also serve as "show cause" boards (e.g., those non-selected may be required to show cause why they should not be discharged).

2. An officer 2x nonselected for promotion to O4 in any of the reserve components by law must be discharged.

3. Non-selection is in fact a "recommendation of a board of officers" in that the officer/NCO not selected was considered but was not recommended for promotion.

4. Late 1977/early 1978 is about the time one would expect Kerry to have been considered for LCDR.

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath waiting for dirt here, folks. It's beginning to look more and more like Kerry stayed on the the USNR rolls until he was 2x nonselected for LCDR (likely due to nonparticipation) and was then - as required by law - discharged honorably.
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[Inatizzy]

Hondo, I don't know if you realized it or not, but you just have the Dems their spin on this. Kerry is guilty as he!! on this and probably was court martialed or at the least dishonorably discharged.

We know the Dems troll this board and you putting forth that scenario just gave them their spin on this. We can't afford to help the other side.

Take a look at the thread on the main forum regarding this. You will see that it's fairly iron clad. Navy Chief has really done his homework. Check out the last paragraph of the article in the Sun. It's the kicker.

The Dems will run with your spin on this and muddy the waters. Be careful.

[Mary Ann Parker]

When a reply is sensitive, just private message it to the
appropriate party.

They can spin it but they can't hide it forever.

If we could get definitive, organized info on a
military timeline with the relevant questions
and points we could go forward.
Do not give up.

Let's keep going.

Make it a great day.
Mary Ann Parker

[docford]

Someone correct me if I am wrong (maybe we need some input from a YN or admin officer) - but I do not believe a Naval reserver officer on inactive ready reserves goes before a promotion board. I do not remember hearing about Kerry doing weekends or two weeks reserve duty in the summer.

Am I off-base here?
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Doc Ford
HMC (SW) USN

[Mary Ann Parker]

I am sorry, I just had a "halfheimers" moment.

When did Kerry go from Lt.j.g. To Lt.???

I need to purge and start over. Phew

Help me with my day.
Mary Ann Parker

[Hondo]

Inatizzy:

Someone else on BeldarBlog has already brought up a very similar point, so I don't think I'm giving away anything at all. This same point (Kerry's possible "bad" discharge) has also been discussed here repeatedly by myself and others.

IMO, hiding a possible explanation does no good particularly if it turns out to be the truth. Making unfounded allegations only makes OUR side look bad and plays into the mainstream media's "SBVFT are nothing but smear artists" campaign.


docford:

Kerry was not a member of the Ready Reserve in 1977/78. In March 1972 he was transferred to the Standby Reserve. This is a different reserve status. A decent explanation of the various types of reserve status can be found at http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourceFileView?file=Reserve_Component.htm

There are two subcategories within the Standby Reserve - the "Active Status List" and the "Inactive Status List." Members of the Standby Reserve - Inactive Status List are not eligible for promotion. Members of the Standby Reserve - Active Status List are in fact eligible for promotion up to and including O6.

Reservists on the Standby Reserve - Inactive Status List are not currently considered for promotion, and may not be considered for promotion until they have been in an active status (e.g., drilling unit, IMA, IRR, temporary active duty, or Standby Reserve - Active Status List) for one year or more. However, the rules of Reserve management changed dramatically in 1995 with passage of the Reserve Officer Personnel Management Act. This act made numerous changes in the way Reserve personnel issues are handled. I am not sure what the rules were regarding the consideration for promotion of reservists in an inactive status (e.g., nonparticipating but still formally affiliated with a reserve component) in 1977/1978.
_________________
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- John Stuart Mill

[zinfella]

When F-ing got his discharge upgraded, does anyone know for sure that Carter didn't pardon him? If he was pardoned, it's another issue.
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No whiners!

[docford]

Forget the pardon issue. Pardons can not be issued in private. They are public record.
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Doc Ford
HMC (SW) USN

[docford]

It has been awhile since I've been able to gather strength enough to stomach looking at Kerry's service record. Was he Standby Reserve - Active Status?

As a side issue, if he was Standby Reserve - Active Status, does that mean that he continued to be subject to the UCMJ while he was stabbing his fellow veterans in the back and meeting with representatives of the VC and North Vietnamese?
_________________
Doc Ford
HMC (SW) USN