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DELTREE
Seaman Recruit
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 34
Location: THE GREAT STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Larry Martin, you have no problem with RAMBO J.Fonda (o) Kerry?
GIVE ME A BREAK!
Pres. RAMBO J.Fonda (o) Kerry>  |
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JN173
Commander
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:47 pm Post subject: New Vet |
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You might want to check
www.WinterSoldier.com
or
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_entry.html
The first has good links for reference purposes. The 2nd contains all of the testimonies of the Winter Soldier Investigation which are the allegations on which Kerry's statement is based. (i.e. the first 2 paragraphs of his statement.) Of course if you have a easily upset stomach you might won't to skip reading these. If you believe Kerry's sworn testimony is true after reading these there is a bridge over the East River I can make you a deal on. 
You said you viewed his "sworn testimony" on C-SPAN. You might actually want to read it in full. The C-SPAN show is somewhat abbreviated. The full statement can be reached through WinterSoldier.com by using the link
Complete John Kerry Testimony, 04/22/71
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A Grunt
2/503 173rd Airborne Brigade
RVN '65-'66 |
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DougReese
Former Member
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ASPB wrote: | | nakona wrote: | I have to admit, I would have shot him too.
Of course, I probably wouldn't have been in a position to,shoot him, as I was trained that acting like a cowboy gets people killed. Not just the cowboy, but the people around him. |
As to common sense! When you put the the bow of a boat ashore you raise the bow of the boat as much as 20% degrees above horizontal. The major weapon on a Swift was in a twin .50 cal. mount on top of the deckhouse. The depression bar on the mount would have prevented them from being brought on target. The same is likely for the M-60 pedestal mount on the bow.
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Two quick Points, Tom, as I think I've commented on most of this before:
1. I don't think it made any difference if the bow was raised or not. That safety bar (or whatever you call it) would have most likely prevented the .50 from getting him as he was so close.
2. I am pretty sure the M-60 didn't have a pedestal mount. I'll ask Joe Muharsky, as he was an M-60 gunner on that Swift (94) on other occasions. But regardless, it was the M-60 that initially shot the guy. So if there was a mount, it didn't prevent the M-60 was shooting/hitting him. And if the damned thing hadn't jammed, we wouldn't be having this conversation
Doug |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry Martin wrote: | | Again , I've viewed all the sworn testimony on C-SPAN that John Kerry had given . I've also looked at a lot of different web sites that appear to have one motivation, to destroy this man's reputation. The rumor he (John Kerry) excepted an honor by North Vietnamese, was started several days ago by G. Gordon Liddy . That in itself came from someone with to my knowledge 8 felony convictions for trying to undermine another election that ultimately created one of the largest candles this country's ever witnessed (Watergate). The fact is he himself( Liddy) spent five years a federal penitentiary., not to mention the fact lost his voting rights .If there's evidence that Mr. Kerry committed treason by helping the enemy , then bring forward. If not, those who support these lies about this man, are far more unpatriotic than anything he done by publicly protesting Vietnam. |
Larry, You're entitled to your opinion but you'll find it's in the minority both here and among Vietnam veterans. 95% of Swiftboat veterans that can be located are opposed to his candidacy based upon the evidence you've read and rejected. This is true also in approximately the same ratio for Riverine and River Patrol veterans.
I would suggest you not play the patriotism card in this forum. No one that I know of in this forum has seriously questioned Kerry's patriotism while he served in Vietnam nor has anyone directly linked to the Bush campaign. In 1943 he would have been prosecuted as a traitor for his anti-war activities and trips to Paris, but times changed. Hopefully, they're starting to change back.
Liddy did not start a rumor. There is a photo of Kerry hanging in the "War Remnants Museum" in Saigon along with momentos of such wonders as Ramsey Clark and Jane Fonda. You can reach your own conclusion as to why the Vietnamese hung it there. Most here have concluded, I think correctly, that the Vietnamese consider Kerry a major contributor to their victory in " The Great American War". If they think so, why shouldn't we?
Have you read Lt. Col Bin Tui of the North Vietnamese general staff or seen the verified quotations from General Giap! Do some research. BTW, are you a Vietnam Vet?
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 On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB
Last edited by ASPB on Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Larry, respectfully, you are preaching to the choir here. You'll convert no one on this site to your point of view. But, nice try anyway!
Woof!
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When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:29 am Post subject: |
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No, we're simply disagreeing with you and your choice to support John F. Kerry and vote for him.
What did you expect, to come here to a site that is created for the sole purpose of getting the word out as to why John F. Kerry should not be President and CIC?
But, like I and others said, you are entitled to your opinion, and to vote for whomever you want to. Good luck!
Woof!
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When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Larry Martin wrote: | "BTW, are you a Vietnam Vet?"
Why is it every time that a Vietnam veteran that might support Mr. Kerry and not Junior Bush , their credibility is put into question? Might be because the person questioning this credibility is not a Vietnam veteran themselves.? With duo respect, what part of my opening to do not understand?
There is several ways for a person to verify whether or not they been in country (Vietnam), and this one of them. Along the road leading from the 90 th replacement center to Saigon, about 5 possibly 7 mi into the trip on the right hand side of the road, there is a monument comparable to what we might find in Arlington national Cemetery. Any person that ever been on that road, knows exactly what I'm talking about. |
Nope! But have you been to the Annapolis Hotel in Cholon?
Larry, your credentials weren't being questioned by me. It was just that; a question because you're new to the forum and I honestly didn't know. A question of whether you were, or were not, accused of atrocities like many of us. Larry, you protest too loudly!
If you choose to support a lifelong political opportunist who stepped on the souls of millions of good men and put thousands more at extra risk, you only have yourself to answer to. I, for one, won't answer for you.
You know what? If the hack had not made his military service a centerpiece of his campaign; "John Kerry, War Hero" and campaigned as the pascifist liberal that he is, I might have given him a pass and just voted for a real man. As it is I, like the majority of Vietnam vets are outraged and will do everything in our power to embarrass and defeat him.
Have I been clear enough, Larry? Do I have to yell?
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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nakona
Lieutenant
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Larry Martin wrote: |
Why is it every time that a Vietnam veteran that might support Mr. Kerry and not Junior Bush , their credibility is put into question? |
Because it's very odd for a Veteran or Active Duty Soldier to support a democratic candidate AT ALL, let alone one like Kerry.
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War Dog
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Below Birmingham Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Why is it every time that a Vietnam veteran that might support Mr. Kerry and not Junior Bush , their credibility is put into question? |
Larry, that statement above tells us all we need to know about you! If you were here to be fair, you would have said, 'Mr. Kerry and President Bush' or 'Senator Kerry and President Bush', or even, 'Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush', and finally, 'Kerry and Bush' would have been acceptable, but your referring to President Bush as, 'Junior Bush' shows great disrespect towards the President of this nation, and like I said, shows just where you stand!
I'm going to tell you like it is, veteran, Vietnam or otherwise, we will tolerate no trolls here. As long as you stay within the rules and debate and discuss the issues honestly with no name calling, no insults, and no attacking the other members here that disagree with you, you may stay and post anywhere you like. But if you are here to cause trouble, spew hate, and partisan retoric and lies, you'll be bumped out of here so fast, it'll make you head spin.
Your choice! Keep it respectful, honest and clean, or peddle your partisan stuff elsewhere!
Woof!
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When cops need help, they call the K-9 unit." |
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ASPB
Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:20 am Post subject: |
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I second the motion! 
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On Sale! Order in lots of 100 now at velero@rcn.com Free for the cost of shipping All profits (if any, especially now) go to Swiftvets. The author of "Sink Kerry Swiftly" ---ASPB |
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garb1015
Seaman Apprentice
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Larry Martin
I was drafted in August 1969.
I served in Viet Nam from early Feb '70 until late Mar '71
Three weeks after returning from VN I watched John Kerry on TV addressing Congress.
His actions in the early seventies have been well documented on this site.
I have yet to see any of those actions proven to be untrue.
If you still feel that you are able to vote for Kerry in spite of those actions, then try looking into his political record over the last 19 years.
His actions in the seventies and his political record each stand on their own as reasons why this man does not deserve to be President and Commander In Chief. When you add the two together, the evidence is overwhelming. |
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: |
Well, no one who was there -- and in particular the .50 cal gunner -- has ever said he was hit by the .50 cal. In fact, the .50 cal gunner has specifically said he didn't hit him. And he couldn't have, as the safety bar prevented him from doing so. And when he was firing, he wasn't trying to hit him.
Complain about Kerry's post-war action if you want, but repeating these lies -- and that's what they are -- accomplishes nothing.
Doug |
Short, the gunner, has said that he fired at the hootch/lean-to that Charlie was hiding behind and didn't know whether Charlie was hit or not at least that's the original version in the after action report Kerry published on his website. The safety bar was only a problem when Charlie popped out of the hole. According to recent reports Kerry would have been in the way after Charlie began running away with an M-60 wound to his leg.
Do you want to rephrase your response that the gunner wasn't trying to hit Charlie?
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"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| nakona wrote: | I have to admit, I would have shot him too.
Of course, I probably wouldn't have been in a position to shoot him, as I was trained that acting like a cowboy gets people killed. Not just the cowboy, but the people around him. |
Roger that!
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| DougReese wrote: |
Two quick Points, Tom, as I think I've commented on most of this before:
1. I don't think it made any difference if the bow was raised or not. That safety bar (or whatever you call it) would have most likely prevented the .50 from getting him as he was so close.
2. I am pretty sure the M-60 didn't have a pedestal mount. I'll ask Joe Muharsky, as he was an M-60 gunner on that Swift (94) on other occasions. But regardless, it was the M-60 that initially shot the guy. So if there was a mount, it didn't prevent the M-60 was shooting/hitting him. And if the damned thing hadn't jammed, we wouldn't be having this conversation
Doug |
Except that you have said Charlie ran away. At some point the twin .50's could have fired at him.
There is also the problem of why Kerry didn't fire from the boat. Chasing Charlie down a trail was very risky. Charlie was likely aware of the practice of setting up a booby trap along the trail -- a tactic used to kill tigers that usually involved digging a hole, covering it and then getting the tiger to chase someone down the trail who would run around the hole. Another potential tactic that Charlie used in other parts of the country was to get someone to run into an ambush.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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jalexson
PO3
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 272
Location: Hutchinson, Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Larry Martin wrote: | | Again , I've viewed all the sworn testimony on C-SPAN that John Kerry had given . I've also looked at a lot of different web sites that appear to have one motivation, to destroy this man's reputation. The rumor he (John Kerry) excepted an honor by North Vietnamese, was started several days ago by G. Gordon Liddy . That in itself came from someone with to my knowledge 8 felony convictions for trying to undermine another election that ultimately created one of the largest candles this country's ever witnessed (Watergate). The fact is he himself( Liddy) spent five years a federal penitentiary., not to mention the fact lost his voting rights .If there's evidence that Mr. Kerry committed treason by helping the enemy , then bring forward. If not, those who support these lies about this man, are far more unpatriotic than anything he done by publicly protesting Vietnam. |
See the following link as evidence that Kerry committed treason with his antiwar activities.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1249
David Horowitz helped organize the first anti_Vietnam war demonstration at UC Berkley in 1962 and continued to be one of the leaders of the movement. He says that he and others stepped over the line from legitimate protest to treason and were responsible for prolonging the war.
_________________
"That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditching and shoe making and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poor house."
-- Mark Twain |
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