SwiftVets.com

[3rd gen Navy]

More Bias from one who should know better:

This from Michael Dorf at findlaw:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20040901.html

This guy has an incredible education and yet still engages in subjective, unsubstantiated rhetoric. Does he think we're too dumb to notice his lack of objectivity? Selected quotes from the above URL follow:

But he has not specifically condemned the Swift Boat advertisements, which falsely claim that Kerry lied about the events that led to his combat medals.


That explains, to some extent, the actions of one non-PAC 527 organization--Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. They presumably felt free to sling mud at Senator Kerry without worrying that it would splash back on President Bush because they thought they could plausibly claim to be independent of the President's campaign.

There is, however, an alternative response to irresponsible advertisements by groups like Swift Boat Veterans for Truth…

So what action should be taken by Kerry supporters upset by the falsehoods presented by Swiftboat Veterans for Truth…

Please feel free to e-mail him at:

michael.dorf@law.columbia.edu

As always, should you be so inclined to give this fellow a piece of your mind, be objective, be moderate in your tone, spell check your e-mail, etc. Personally, I'm appalled that someone with the education he has could exhibit such an incredible lack of objectivity. You can read about his background at the following URL.

Michael Dorf CV
note: URL converted to hypertext
_________________
Warm Regards,
Sean G. Smith,
RN, BSN, EMT-B, U.S. Navy, 1994 - 2003.
BS Biology, Business Administration, Nursing
The Deal with Life: Make decisions based on what you might gain, not on what you may lose.
!!!!!! LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN !!!!!!

[jim_nyc]

Thanks for the heads up.

Just sent an email.

[BC]

I will probably be sending this idiot an e-mail later when I have more time, but for now he could have saved himself about 5 minutes of hard thinking be just stating what he really wanted to say.

I hate the Swift Boat Vets, I love moveon.idiots and the law says you can’t make moveon.idiots shut up. So nanny nanny boo boo.

Please
_________________
Remember United Flight 93, "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."
Duty Honor Country

[Jerry M]

I sent Dorf the following email:

Michael,

How anyone with a brain could doubt what Kerry was up to in 1971 and what he is up to now is beyond my ability to comprehend. This guy has never been able to distinguish between legitimate, constructive criticism of US policy and giving aid and comfort to our enemies. When he perceives some political advantage to be gained, he has no problem with the latter. There will be great jubilation in Iraq among the terrorists if he were tragically to be elected. They know he has already announced that he will cut and run from a war he heavily supported before the fact but now says is a mistake for purely partisan political purposes. His incredible number of differing positions on Iraq are legendary. Before we became the dumbed down country that we are, he would have been laughed out of a Presidential race, Vietnam aside. This election is going to say more about us than about either candidate if Kerry were to be elected.

I am a retired Marine Corps officer who served two tours in Vietnam. I can assure you that for me and the vast majority of Vietnam veterans, Kerry's unfitness and unworthiness for command has nothing to do with being Republican or Democrat. We would feel just as strongly against him if he were a Republican. While the initial donors to the Swift boat vets were Republicans (just as most donors to Democrat 527's are Democrats), over 53,000 individuals have contributed almost $7 million. Has it occured to you or others like you that all the criticism of self proclaimed war hero Kerry is coming from Vietnam and other veterans including former POW's and Medal of Honor recipients while all the criticism of Bush's National Guard service is coming from Kerry and his surrogates in the media and Democratic party operatives. I'm not aware of any National Guard against Bush organizations or any other significant veterans groups against Bush. I'm also not sure what planet you have been on when Kerry had to back off some of his earlier claims like Christmas in Cambodia just to name one. I imagine you are an ACLU member or ally but have no problem with Kerry's only response to the Swiftboat ads other than name calling which was to try to censor the book "Unfit for Command" and threaten legal action aginst radio and TV stations if they ran the ad. The First Amendment doesn't matter to hypocrits like the ACLU or people like you when it is one of your cronies whose ox is being gored (no pun intended)

David Broder said it best when he mentioned a 2002 conversation with Kerry during which he said it would be politically advantageous to have both fought in Vietnam and opposed the war in Vietnam War. Broder went on to say that he thought people would see too much political calculation in such a bifurcated record. The Democratic Party spin is that he changes positions all the time because he is a complex, nuanced man when he is really a man with no integrity who blows in the wind (as illustrated in a recent ad) with what looks good politically at any point in time.

Kerry is the most flawed and dangerous candidate I have seen run for President in my 63 years and I have voted for both Democrats and Republicans including, believe it or not, Bill Clinton in 1992. I am a faculty member at a college in the Kansas City area. I am well acquainted with academic elitists like yourself whose ideology completely blocks out objective, intellectually honest thinking. Another name for this affliction is called prejudice which is a disease of the most stupid and ignorant among us whether it be against race, religion or just clear thinking about issues. You and other academic egg heads like you are among the more pathetic members of our society. We will know we are in big trouble if you become a majority.

[dmackto]

sent:

[dmackto]

ouch should have proof- read that before I sent it...
_________________
Deborah
The FROZEN CHICKEN Journal

This is no time for ease and comfort. It is the time to dare and endure.
- Winston Churchill

[dmackto]

[3rd gen Navy]

Thanks for the e-mails guys! Professionalism and objectivity are the way.
Hopefully, some of our other readers will take the time to issue thoughtful and well reasoned replies. We can't change a closed mind, but we can serve notice that bias in public forums will not go unrebutted. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a point of contact for his supervisor/editor at findlaw. I am considering writing the Department Head / Chain of Command at his university. Will pass on e-mails as I find them.
_________________
Warm Regards,
Sean G. Smith,
RN, BSN, EMT-B, U.S. Navy, 1994 - 2003.
BS Biology, Business Administration, Nursing
The Deal with Life: Make decisions based on what you might gain, not on what you may lose.
!!!!!! LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN !!!!!!

[3rd gen Navy]

Dean of the Faculty of Law
David M. Schizer
Email dschiz@law.columbia.edu

Here is Dorf's "boss". I strongly encourage you to e-mail him, and suggest that Dorf's lack of objectivity is a negative reflection upon both Columbia in general and the school of Law in particular. As an employee of Columbia University, Dorf should temper his comments to avoid placing his department and institution in a bad light.
_________________
Warm Regards,
Sean G. Smith,
RN, BSN, EMT-B, U.S. Navy, 1994 - 2003.
BS Biology, Business Administration, Nursing
The Deal with Life: Make decisions based on what you might gain, not on what you may lose.
!!!!!! LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN !!!!!!

[shadowy]

That's excellent Deborah. Since it will tax his mental abilities, I'll make mine simpler. I'll tell him that the best way to deny the SwiftVets their first amendment rights and stifle their criticism is simple. If you have the slightest shred of proof that they've lied, do what John O'Neill suggested, and sue him.
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It's downright brilliant the way he's reserving his devastating intellect to spring it on us at exactly the right moment.

[truthserum]

Here's my contribution to the letter writing campaign. I hope it helps.
At least I feel better doing something rather than nothing.

From:
Date: 09/25/04 17:58:43
To: michael.dorf@law.columbia.edu
Subject: SwiftBoat Veterans for Truth

Why "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" and Other "527" Organizations Can't Be Silenced
By MICHAEL C. DORF

Dear Mr. Dorf,

Before you write an article, I believe you need to fact check. You are "assuming" that the SwiftBoat Vets are lying. I would like to know upon what basis you make that claim.

I am a 58 year old woman whose brother served "honorably" as a Marine in the Vietnam War. My Uncle also served in Vietnam. My brother made it home, my uncle did not.

I am old enough to remember what John Kerry said when he testified before the Senate about soldiers committing war crimes on a daily basis.

I am not one of the SwiftBoat vets nor is my brother, but we still to this day have "seared, seared" in our memories how my brother was treated when he returned from Vietnam. He was assailed with epithets of "baby killer", spit on, protestors trying to gang up on him. He never wanted to speak about Vietnam or admit he had even been there for years because of the baggage he was forced to carry over the words of John Kerry. My family received mean letters throwing insults at us and my brother for having served in Vietnam. This hurt all of us in many ways you could not even imagine.

I even had terrible thoughts that my uncle was the luckier one having been killed in Vietnam and not having to face what my brother had to face when he came home to America.

You can lie to those of us who are younger and do not have any knowledge or recollection of what took place because of Mr. Kerry's lies, but you cannot lie to those of us who lived through it. Perhaps you need to read the book "Unfit For Command" before you write any more articles on this subject with your bias poking through your words.

(edited to remove your personal information - you don't really know who is reading these boards. EJ)

[PatS]

You can also find this information on 'findlaw.' I found it by following the links on armytimes.com.


Bush’s military records

3. http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html
Saturday, Sept. 25, 2004
Pentagon Releases More Bush Service Documents WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon on Friday released more records on President Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service but they provided no new substantive information. The 10 pages released included documents that had already been made public and were in most part cover letters or forms pertaining to Bush's appointment as 2nd Lt in the Texas Air National Guard.

DOCUMENTS
Many of these documents are in PDF format and can be viewed using Adobe Acrobat Reader.
Military Service Records of President George W. BushRecords of the President's military service in the Texas Air National Guard and other assignments during the years 1968 to 1973.

Military Records of First Lieutenant George W. Bush for National Guard Service Between 1972 and 1973:
Please note: The following four documents were originally obtained by CBS News and sent to FindLaw by the White House on September 8, 2004. However, CBS News issued a statement Monday, September 20, 2004, stating in part that the network "cannot prove the authenticity of documents used in a 60 Minutes story about President Bush's National Guard service and . . . airing the story was a 'mistake' that CBS regretted." · Aug. 1, 1972 Memo ordering Bush's suspension from the Texas Air National Guard's 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron. · May 4, 1972 Memo ordering Bush to report for his annual physical examination with the Texas Air National Guard by no later than May 14, 1972. · May 19, 1972 Memo to the file from Bush's commanding officer about a telephone call from Bush asking about how he "can get out of coming to drill," and suspecting that "he's...been talking to someone upstairs." · Aug. 18, 1973 ‘CYA’ Memo from Lt. Col. Killian suggesting that his superior officer, Col. Walter B. Staudt, was "pushing to sugar coat" Bush's officer evaluation.

[Tom Poole]

Here's what I sent to Schizer and Dorf:

Dear sir:

Michael C. Dorf is much too obvious in his support for Kerry. While I only attended a state university, I learned the Fourth Estate was established to keep people honestly advised of government actions, good and bad. His article published September 1, contains a number of biased comments, adjudged dishonest by many of us on the other side of the political fence. Dorf is perceived by many of us as the consummate snob, effete to a fault and unfair, bordering on prevarication. Columbia is one of our finest universities in law but also journalism. I believe Dorf has stained the university, particularly your fine school of journalism.

He seemed to blindly attack the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (Swiftees) but didn't seem to have a grasp of their message. This group in no way supports Bush and would be happy with anyone other than Kerry. If you would take the time to read Unfit for Command, I believe you also would conclude that "no jury in this country would fail to convict." Since they have been organized only since May, additional evidence is piling up every day. Please give it fair consideration, particularly since it may be read in one easy sitting. Many Swiftee vets are uneducated, overly direct, from all political persuasions (many are Democrats), but all seem to be honestly dedicated to one aim. That aim involves Bush only indirectly and has no connection at all to him. This quarrel is between the Swiftees and Kerry. Much of the quarrel would be defused if he would sign a Form 180, releasing his records so we may see what he's really been up to.

Thanks for your time,
_________________
'58 Airedale HMR(L)-261 VMO-2

[Nomorelies]

[FredRum]

Dorf, meet Beldar and his challenge.
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