SwiftVets.com

buzzards27 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 5

I was wondering if someone could point to the link where kerry is quoted using the words "baby killer" I know about the VVAW and the Wintersoldier thing in detroit and his congressional 'visit'. Where in all of that stuff did kerry use those words?

coldwarvet · Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject:

Please reference the baby killer charge. Who, when..
If there is a charge out their find that person and challenge it their.
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coldwarvet · Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:22 pm Post subject:

If you want to post here you best support your charges before you make them.
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buzzards27 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 5

i'm looking for the atribution to kerry. i find third hand references to it all over. even from the nixon tapes

"Where did he serve?" Nixon asked.

"He was a Navy lieutenant, j.g., on a gunboat, and he used to run his gunboat up and shoot at, shoot babies out of women's arms," Haldeman said.

"Oh, stop that," Nixon said. "People in the Navy don't do things [like that.]"

coldwarvet · Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject:

buzzards27 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 5

rbshirley · Founder Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 394

coldwarvet

buzzards27 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 5

ColdWarVet; there is no reason to be overly vigilant. while, at this point, i may not totally agree with or understand either side, your behavior is counterproductive to your cause. i am simply looking for information to make an important decision. Read my first post [not the subject heading], i am looking for kerry's use of this word, whether referring himself or others. i'm am trying to determine the credibility of claims i've heard. others have put the word "babykiller" in kerry's mouth. i looked at the winter soldier thing, the congressional thing and the dick cavett interview and i haven't found him using this word. My guess is if the quote was out there you'd know about it, so Haldeman's quote is as close a I get...

rbshirley; I've seen that kerry quote your noted [i note you didn't include the full quote "They told the stories at times they had personally raped..."]. He was apparently referring to testimony from the winter soldier thing. The way I read it was he wasn't neccessarily adopting those words as his, but relating what took place in detroit. maybe i'm wrong.

the way i take most of this is that kerry was opposed to the war and opposed the govenment carrying it out. I don't see where he says he opposes or condems the foot soldiers. Again, I may be wrong. I've just spent a few days looking at this stuff and don't know enough to say for sure.

War Dog · Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:02 am Post subject:

buzzards27, I don't think you will find any post here on this site where anyone said that John Kerry used the words "Babykiller". What you will find is many posts that attribute that word to the many anti-war protestors during the Vietnam War, as well as many anti-war types in the last 30 something years, and as recent as two parades on the 4th of July in our nation.

Maybe you should check out all the threads here, and get your facts straight before you directly or indirectly come here, and try and cause trouble. Watch your step! We tolerate no trolls here!

Friggin War Woof!
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KeithNolan · Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:25 am Post subject:

Debates about John Kerry's days with the VVAW can be found at threads I started, to include "this website is fueled by lies and innuendo (part two)" and "Joe Conason's charges against the SBVFT."

I don't think Kerry ever used the "baby-killer" epithet. In any event, the baby-killer slur was in use among the anti-war hardcore since 1965 when General Westmoreland's search-and-destroy strategy was put into effect with telling effect on the civilian population of Vietnam. The slur really gained traction when the details of the My Lai massacre was revealed in 1969.

John Kerry really didn't have much to do with it. . . .

Keith Nolan

hist/student · Lieutenant Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 243

I think you will find that kerry's connection to 'baby killers' is by way of the media of the era's paraphrasing what he said at winter soldier. I'd look at Walter Cronkite and the NY Times if you are seriously interested.

This was a chant shouted at soldiers wearing their uniforms in public in those days. This was done at airports and pretty much any where a soldier might be seen.

Remember Kerry was front man for the worst of the worst of the anti war groups. This taunt of 'baby killer' is standard brainwashing crap, used to try and break down a vets psyche so that VVAW (or the moonies for that matter) could more readily remold a soldiers ego to thier design. There was allot of stuff going on in those days, watch the Mancurian Candidate.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

Keith, please for once be accurate, please. You are continuing with extraordinary disrespect with your inaccuracies.

There may have been some element of a 'anti war' movement in 65 but it was infinitesimal when compared with what arose after the 'May day piece tribe' and 'Winter Soldier'.

I really don't understand how you could be so ignorant of that which garners your living. Things did not heat up until after 68 and the assassinations of R Kennedy and M L King.... they came to a head in 71. You really should take a history course or something.

Here is a time line of the war protests. I moved to D C in 69. The single largest protest was the Mayday Peace tribe. This was the height of the 'baby killer' dung. Also this is when the Barrigan brothers began throwing chicken blood on my father and his peers on a daily basis as he went to work at the pentagon.

18 Apr 71 - 2,300 Vietnam Veterans came to Washington, DC to participate in Dewey Canyon III, "a military incursion into the country of Congress". Led by Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), the vets camped on the mall 1/4 mile from the Capitol, and threw away military medals and ribbons at the foot of the statue of Chief Justice John Marshall.

24 Apr 71 - 10 days of protests by a group calling themselves the "Mayday Tribe" included attempted work stoppages at several federal offices in Washington, DC

3 May 71 - 5,100 policemen backed by 10,000 federal troops resulted in an unprecedented mass arrest of approximately 7,000 persons, with another 2,700 arrested the next day. Protests ended 5 May with the arrest of another 1,200 demonstrators on the Capitol's east steps during a rally attended by some members of Congress

Kerry as the 'front man' for VVAW certainly is absolutely culpable in the 'baby killer' manacle. Yes Cally played a role as well, yet a fraction of what Kerry's role was.

(Deleted by admin)

rbshirley · Founder Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 394

Indianbaboon · Lieutenant Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 234

busstards,
I know in the pretty little new world that liberal educators have smothered us with, you can't see the fallacy in your statement:

[quote]the way i take most of this is that kerry was opposed to the war and opposed the govenment carrying it out. I don't see where he says he opposes or condems the foot soldiers. [quote]

Simple human psychology, on both sides of the conflict. Opposing a war and opposing a govt the way he did both aided and abetted the enemy while at the same time ensuring that the soldiers who returned did not get the hero's welcome they deserved.

Ever play team sports? When a player on your team has a fatalistic attitude and openly says "the other team is better," your team flags. When you don't believe you can win the game yourself, your fans lose their enthusiasm. This is in essence disrespecting and encouraging non-players to disrespect the players.

If the other team sees this player's lack of confidence, it gains confidence. It becomes emboldened saying "look, even they know they can't win/are in teh wrong". THis is aid and comfort to the enemy.

Kerry in essence told civilians that our ssoldiers were not honorable men defending the american way and the freedom of the world but petty barbarians. Vikings and huns who raped, pillaged, and burned for the sheer joy of it. He was the kindling of the fires that raged against our troops on their return home

Kerry told the NVA that he believed in them, supported them, and wanted them to win. The NVA thought, well if even americans want us to win, then that's a shot in the arm of confidence.

KERRY KILLED SOLDIERS, KERRY ALIENATED SOLDIERS, KERRY DISPARAGED, INJURED, AND DESTROYED SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO I LOOK UP TO MOST. Indirect action is still action. Mad

buzzards27 · Seaman Recruit Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 5